How do you tell some one to throw away their camera

[Battou]

Judging by some of the replies It's a fair assessment that many of you have not realized or forgot I am trying to build a gallery site for people to use similar to Deviant Art solely for photography and photographic oriented works of art. I ask this question simply in the event that particular answer may be required should the question be asked. If the person was standing right next to me it's a different story, I have no qualms about letting some one rifle off a couple dozen pictures with my camera to get the point across, and have done so, but on the internet that is easier said than done.

Wile yes, I do understand the photographer is as much a part of the photograph as the image displayed, but If some one asks you "How can I take better pictures?" and provides you with a couple dozen pictures that are by all technical terms correct for the situation taken with a 2 mgp or lower camera, How do you answer that. Contrary the way it may have sounded, I am going to wait for them to come to me, once they ask, this tells me one of two things, either one: they are unhappy with the camera or Two: they do not realize they are unhappy with their camera.

I have sidelined my digital camera despite the fact I can get good shots out of it. I have taken an entire two pictures with it since digging up the SLR. So Yes, I have in a sense thrown away my camera and am much happier with the primitive SLR.

Besides telling the OP that he is a moron, WTH?

Truth be told, I expected to be called a moron at least once or more, I intentionally chose to word it in a manor that would light a fire under peoples asses in an effort to get the clearest most honest answers. When someone dislikes the way something was said there is less hesitation to be perfectly blunt and not beat around the bush.

 

[Iron Flatline]

It's exactly what happens on this forum all the time - "How do I get my background blurry?", for instance. Well, you explain DOF to them, and they pretty quickly understand that certain equipment allows you to incorporate certain styles more easily, and that such gear tends to be beyond the basic consumer-grade stuff.

 

[Battou]

It's exactly what happens on this forum all the time - "How do I get my background blurry?", for instance. Well, you explain DOF to them, and they pretty quickly understand that certain equipment allows you to incorporate certain styles more easily, and that such gear tends to be beyond the basic consumer-grade stuff.

Yes, TPF has a much stronger user base than PL and some one is bound to know the answer. However our forum with only two or three active of a hundred and sixty registered users is a little short in the answer department, I can answer most of the newbie and/or basic questions, but I don't want to come off as a jerk when and if I am approached by this situation and have to inform them the consumer-grade equipment is incapable of it. From what I have seen I think it is a fair assessment that nine out of ten people here are using considerably more than a standard issue point and shoot. This lends well to aiding in the realization that some cameras are in fact better than others with out having to come out and say it, this is something else we lack on PL.

For the longest time I was a firm believer that it had nothing to do with equipment but all the individual wielding the equipment and was proven wrong upon registering here. Even then I use a camera with much satisfaction that is thirty or more years old providing ample evidence that equipment is incremental, but only once one goes beyond Wal-Mart for the equipment.

 

[RacePhoto]

I read a great book recently. On Being a Photographer, by David Hurn. He's with Magnum.

He talks about gear for a few pages. One of the things he describes is the various phases of burgeoning photographers. He says they all go through a phase where they say "It's not the camera, it's the photographer" but the fact is that great photographers use great gear. Without exception. The only difference is that after a (long) while they settle on a particular camera and lens set, and rarely move from it. The camera becomes so much of an extension of themselves, that they cannot move to anything new easily. It becomes totally intuitive, instinctual, an appendage.

Yes, if you think someone has talent, encourage them to explore it. Suggest better gear, it might give them a bigger creative experience. They can still say "no, thank you."

Every time I get a new camera or lens or flash or, fill in the blank... I take some of the worst crap I've ever seen. Then as I learn how to use it and what it can do, the equipment seems to get better. :mrgreen:

This goes along with the extension of oneself that you mention. Knowing how to use a tool, makes it work much better!

When I switched from film to digital, I couldn't figure out how anyone got good photos from these things. Then I learned to work within the limitations. There are still some things I hate about digital, like shutter lag, lack of latitude, and the endless need to have fresh batteries and a charger. ZIg zag lines, purple fringe, and other digital artifacts.

Heck I could shoot for over a year on one meter battery with a manual wind SLR. No autofocus or IS to eat batteries.

However there are some things about digital that I have learned to love, like the Delete button, and those nasty mistakes, are gone forever. I didn't cost me anything. I don't have to pay to have that blurred blob processed and printed. No evidence that I screwed up. No grain, no dust, no water damage, no mold, no shoe boxes, file cases or Rubbermaid bins, full of prints and negatives. I can whip up a contact sheet in minutes, send pictures to friends in seconds.

 

[(Ghastly) Krueger]

Isn't there an entire internet forum dedicated to taking photos with Holgas and Cellphones? I think you'd get your ass kicked if you called them crap cameras. I like the holga I have here!

I agree, ther is a cult following for Holgas and some people take good pics with a cellphone. No question about that.

But that's a very specialized segment of photography and very limited in possibilities.

 

[THORHAMMER]

it totally depends on what you are trying to do with it.
Your original post was
"
How do you tell some one their equipment sucks and they need to get a new camera?
I have seen a handfull of people with deicent potential and rancid cameras as well as people who seem to want to actually try taking artistic pictures with their cell phones. What is a nice way to tell some one this? "

It seems your question is bent on your beliefs that you cannot take artistic pictures with rancid cameras or cell phones. I would have to disagree and say that you can get away with less of a camera if you are purely concentrating on art value.

When it comes to reproduction and studio quality thats a different thing thats a no brainer its commercial, but as for art, there is a whole community out there who is into cell ph pics and holgas.
To that community your crisp clean looking pics you snapped from your dslr pales in comparison to the camera they put together out of a carboard box and took a 45 minute exposure with.

so again, in the interest of art whos to say whos camera is to be thrown out, maybye its your dlsr.

I think both are fine, and I have my choice, but why do you have a pressing need to be telling people to trash their cameras.

I think I understand what you might be asking, but im not sure it came across a little weird....

In my personal opinion, ( I shot with a 2.1 MP fuji for a year, and then a 3.2 fuji for another 6 months, then a 5.1 Sony cybershot for another year and a half, before even getting a entry level DSLR)

you can do a heck of a lot with point and shoots , also you are getting instant feedback when you shoot for a low price as long as you are making each shot count. 25 years ago that would be so inconcievable....

eventually youll probably demand more then the camera can offer, then you decide when to move onward. Let them figure it out for themselves.

if your worried about the little P&S toppling your DSLR then you need to be worried about your art more.

 

[xfloggingkylex]

Thor, I dont know why you kept talking like this is some insecurity of the OP, as if he is worried a cell phone is going to take a better picture than his.

All he is asking is how do you recommend an upgrade for someone who could clearly benefit with a DSLR over their cell phone (or even a point and shoot).

 

[THORHAMMER]

If I took the OPs meaning wrong, maybye its possible, I just went from the the words he typed. He didnt include all those variables in his first post. Thats what I replied to first.

If your translation is really what he meant, then I would offer a different suggestion,

I would say dont tell them anything, just leave them alone, unless they are asking you for help. they might be having problems which are due to the limitations of their equipment, but they also might be totally happy with it. theres no way to know unless you strike up a conversation.

my whole points is----

I've been tempted in the past to look down on someone else
(camera wise) whos trying to take portraits or something with like a sonyf828 or something, just cause Im thinking in the long road they will need more ... turns out for their purposes (90% 8x10 and 11x14 )
its fantastic. In time they will naturally migrate if they need it. Just as im sure many super pros look down on me for not having a 5D.

So I just stopped thinking like that alltogether ...
its sort of hypocritical of myself if I start making up rules
about what people should use.

unless they ask for help, or were working on a job together where its commercial I dont get into it.

I guess I didnt explain myself too much earlier.

 

[Battou]

If I took the OPs meaning wrong, maybye its possible, I just went from the the words he typed. He didnt include all those variables in his first post. Thats what I replied to first.

If your translation is really what he meant, then I would offer a different suggestion,

I would say dont tell them anything, just leave them alone, unless they are asking you for help. they might be having problems which are due to the limitations of their equipment, but they also might be totally happy with it. theres no way to know unless you strike up a conversation.

my whole points is----

I've been tempted in the past to look down on someone else
(camera wise) whos trying to take portraits or something with like a sonyf828 or something, just cause Im thinking in the long road they will need more ... turns out for their purposes (90% 8x10 and 11x14 )
its fantastic. In time they will naturally migrate if they need it. Just as im sure many super pros look down on me for not having a 5D.

So I just stopped thinking like that alltogether ...
its sort of hypocritical of myself if I start making up rules
about what people should use.

unless they ask for help, or were working on a job together where its commercial I dont get into it.

I guess I didnt explain myself too much earlier.

You did, xfloggingkylex is correct. It's not your fault, I left it open to inturpritation for just this reason, I am an administrator of another forum, we do not have the resources TPF has. When the question comes up, I do not have the ability to not give them an answer and expect them to find out on their own, we don't have the the sheer number of pros and serious amatures providing par and better images with real cameras to compare to. At the same time I can't just say "your camera is a piece of sht, get something better" simply because the chance is very likely they will respond in the same manor you have, and I can not afford that. By all outward appearances, you are offended to the point that you missed the point of two full posts, how much respect do you think one would have for a website as a whole if the administrative staff piss people off like that. Contrary to the way I worded the original post I have no intention of running around and stricking up conversations for the purpose of saying their camera is of lesser quality, that is even worse, I know that as well as you do.

Also Don't get me wrong, I am not completely bashing P shooters, I have and still acknowledge one as a part of my gear despite rarely using it. I know full well that a point and shoot in skilled hands can provide good pictures.

 

[Rock]

I think you have to be very tactful in any case.....

I have taken some very good photos with my P&S and some real trash too...Sometimes the camera will limit the ability to take a good shot but most of the time I find it can be done with some playing with the settings.

You could send them a link to CS3 and Lightroom. Haha.

 

[Battou]

I think you have to be very tactful in any case.....

I have taken some very good photos with my P&S and some real trash too...Sometimes the camera will limit the ability to take a good shot but most of the time I find it can be done with some playing with the settings.

You could send them a link to CS3 and Lightroom. Haha.

:lmao:

truth be told, the vast majority at current over there are from the sister site FaAC (FanArt-central) Photoshop is one of their primary tools, most of them use and/or abuse it allredy. but I don't want it to become another emofanboy site like it's sister site.

 

[DSLR noob]

Throw away your camera, get a Blad, you're wasting your time with a petty prosumer SLR.Have anyhting short of a 2.8 lens? throw it away total crap. Your equiptment is crap, you can't take REAL pictures until you're snapping with a Blad and some Ziess glass. See how that feels? I refer you to a thread I wrote a while ago.

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=91092&highlight=professional+expected

you're the "professional" in this scenario

Let them play with your camera with no pressure don't tell them that it is better, just say "Hey, you want to trade cameras for a few minutes?" Tell them how to use it, and play around. If they come back saying (as most people have for me) "This is nice, how much would I pay for one of these?" or "What's this called again?" then they want one, and you've done what you wanted. If not, let them be happy. And take your time with their camera seriously, you might learn something yourself.

 

[craig]

It is a tough sell. I try and talk people out of their cameras constantly. The "it's the photographer not the camera" adage is only partly true. If you are serious about photography you will heavily investigate all formats and then figure out which one best suits your work. Sometimes people are not willing to take the next step. Which is fine. I guess we all form our own relationship with the art.

Love & Bass

 

[THORHAMMER]

I only responded to your original words which called it junk cameras.

If you want to test how people react, wouldnt it seem smarter to have the original post not be calling peoples cameras "junk" ?

OR you were just trying to see how far you could go and still have people be polite. ?

I dont like these sneaky, secret question posts.

I dont like being a guniea pig for someone elses website. ba humbug...

go play with your junk cameras.... lol

 

[dpolston]

Heres how,

"hello sir"

My name is "insert name"

I am a moron who thinks that cameras take better pictures then people do. Could you throw out your camera please, its making me feel badly that you might take a more emotive and better composed pic than me with my
"better" camera, therefore making my look bad in the process.

You crack me up!!