How to deal with half-open eyes?

Status
Not open for further replies.

tirediron

Watch the Birdy!
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
Messages
45,747
Reaction score
14,804
Location
Victoria, BC
Website
www.johnsphotography.ca
Can others edit my Photos
Photos OK to edit
I'm part way through a portfolio shoot for a local dancer and have come up against an unusual (in that I have never seen it before) and annoying problem. The client's eye-lids don't fully open. Even if you walked up to her and pinched her butt, they'd only open about half-way, and despite my continued prompting (Read: Begging & pleading) she really didn't seem to be able to do anything about it. As a result, even though the images are reasonably well lit, in most of them, she appears to have serious racoon-eyes.

I know that some of this can be dealt with by the application of different make-up (she had on fairly dark eye make-up to coordinate with a dark costume), but it still doesn't totall solve the issue.

Has anyone ever dealt with this, and/or have suggestions for work-arounds? Is there a particular type/style of make-up that might help reduce the degree of "raccoon-ness"?
 

AaronLLockhart

TPF Noob!
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
889
Reaction score
177
Can others edit my Photos
Photos NOT OK to edit
I use liquify in photoshop for pretty much everything. Slimming, plumping, posture, and even eye visibility.
 

Bynx

No longer a newbie, moving up!
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
2,801
Reaction score
365
Location
Just outside Toronto Canada
Website
www.photo.net
Can others edit my Photos
Photos OK to edit
Aaron, you are bit of a hypochrite arent you? You talk about using Photoshop to actually alter slimming, plumping, posture or to draw another eye in a photograph but say on another thread "I think editing is alright to an extent. There is a LINE where it's basically a digital painting, and calling it photography is really a disgrace to the trade." Its one thing to perhaps tweak for color correction, sharpness, or lens distortion, and quite another to build a new eye or change the shape of something that didnt really exist. So who draws the line defining what can and cannot be done in your eyes? I think changing an eye etc crosses that line. If the photograph is so drastically altered to a painterly look, then it doesnt matter what the creator calls it, we know what it is.
 

MK3Brent

No longer a newbie, moving up!
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
1,173
Reaction score
299
Location
Eastern NC
Can others edit my Photos
Photos OK to edit
I gotta see this... :lol:
 

pgriz

Been spending a lot of time on here!
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
6,734
Reaction score
3,221
Location
Canada
Can others edit my Photos
Photos OK to edit
Well, the question becomes, does your client want to be seen as she is, or as people think she should look? Perhaps there is a neurological reason why her eyelids don't go any higher... If this is true, you probably won't be the first photographer of her who noticed this. Why not show her the images and just ask her what she thinks? If she says that she doesn't like the look, then that's an opening to discuss the issue and see if she had anyone else who had done "acceptable" images.
 

KmH

In memoriam
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
41,401
Reaction score
5,706
Location
Iowa
Website
kharrodphotography.blogspot.com
Can others edit my Photos
Photos OK to edit
Some people got genetic code that prevents them fully opening their eyelids, so there is not a whole lot you can do about it in the camera.

As suggested, your only real solution is post process editing, and you'll be limited on what you can do post process too.
 

KmH

In memoriam
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Messages
41,401
Reaction score
5,706
Location
Iowa
Website
kharrodphotography.blogspot.com
Can others edit my Photos
Photos OK to edit
Aaron, you are bit of a hypochrite arent you? You talk about using Photoshop to actually alter slimming, plumping, posture or to draw another eye in a photograph but say on another thread "I think editing is alright to an extent. There is a LINE where it's basically a digital painting, and calling it photography is really a disgrace to the trade." Its one thing to perhaps tweak for color correction, sharpness, or lens distortion, and quite another to build a new eye or change the shape of something that didnt really exist. So who draws the line defining what can and cannot be done in your eyes? I think changing an eye etc crosses that line. If the photograph is so drastically altered to a painterly look, then it doesnt matter what the creator calls it, we know what it is.
That's not a disgrace to the trade. That is the trade.

My job as a portrait photographer is to make the subject look better in the photographs I make than they look in real life. I accomplish that using both pre and post process methods. I use lighting and posing techniques to minimize any number of unflattering facial and body shape features, which isn't to different from using image editing software.

Do you do retail portraiture on a daily basis?
 

Sw1tchFX

TPF Noob!
Joined
May 3, 2006
Messages
7,499
Reaction score
478
Can others edit my Photos
Photos NOT OK to edit
Maybe that's just how she is. Not much you can do about that without making her look weird
 

Dom6663

TPF Noob!
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Messages
177
Reaction score
29
Location
Colorado
Can others edit my Photos
Photos NOT OK to edit
Take some of those Chinese collar pins (the ones that stick into your neck if you move your head down a little) and put them in her eyes! :fangs:

Or the liquify tool in photoshop too, that works...
 
OP
tirediron

tirediron

Watch the Birdy!
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2005
Messages
45,747
Reaction score
14,804
Location
Victoria, BC
Website
www.johnsphotography.ca
Can others edit my Photos
Photos OK to edit
Thanks all...
Post samples
As soon as I get them off of my editing machine.
try some toothpicks tirediron.
D'ohhh... and I had some with me!!!!
Well, the question becomes, does your client want to be seen as she is, or as people think she should look? Perhaps there is a neurological reason why her eyelids don't go any higher... If this is true, you probably won't be the first photographer of her who noticed this. Why not show her the images and just ask her what she thinks? If she says that she doesn't like the look, then that's an opening to discuss the issue and see if she had anyone else who had done "acceptable" images.

I don't know that it's a neurological reason, it could be happen, or who know's what. Regardless though, she's not a "as I am sort of person".
 

AaronLLockhart

TPF Noob!
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
889
Reaction score
177
Can others edit my Photos
Photos NOT OK to edit
Aaron, you are bit of a hypochrite arent you? You talk about using Photoshop to actually alter slimming, plumping, posture or to draw another eye in a photograph but say on another thread "I think editing is alright to an extent. There is a LINE where it's basically a digital painting, and calling it photography is really a disgrace to the trade." Its one thing to perhaps tweak for color correction, sharpness, or lens distortion, and quite another to build a new eye or change the shape of something that didnt really exist. So who draws the line defining what can and cannot be done in your eyes? I think changing an eye etc crosses that line. If the photograph is so drastically altered to a painterly look, then it doesnt matter what the creator calls it, we know what it is.

Please quote me where I said "Draw a new eye."

Wait, that's right. I didn't :)

Using the liquify tool to open your prospects eyes is no different than using the healing or spot healing brush to remove a blemish, wart, or pimple. I never said I create eyes that aren't there in the first place.

If you think that isn't considered photography, I dare you walk into the editing directors office of Vogue magazine or Victoria's Secret and tell them that they didn't hire photographers, rather graphic designers. I'm sure that will blow over real well...:roll:
 

Bynx

No longer a newbie, moving up!
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
2,801
Reaction score
365
Location
Just outside Toronto Canada
Website
www.photo.net
Can others edit my Photos
Photos OK to edit
Hey after you saying there is a line to be drawn regarding photo manipulation I was just wondering where that line is and who sets it? I know all about liquify and how its used deceptively by photo editors. Im just confused after you manipulate an image so its not the same as the original, just how far can you go? Its just that you sounded a bit sanctimonious when you said photo manipulation was a disgrace to the trade. Some would say what you do is too much. When it comes to Photoshop I love it and I dont really think there is a line that has to be drawn. After all if a photo stops looking like a photo then its obvious to all who see it and no deception. Your slimming with liquify might still look like a photo but its done deceptively. When I look at a photo/painting at least I know what Im looking at instead of getting screwed around by a deceptive image created with a Photoshop plugin.

Tirediron there is a software called Perfect365. I dont know if it will help you but it does amazing things with faces and eye manipulation is one of the things it does really well. Subtle yet well done and all automatically.
 

AaronLLockhart

TPF Noob!
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
889
Reaction score
177
Can others edit my Photos
Photos NOT OK to edit
Hey after you saying there is a line to be drawn regarding photo manipulation I was just wondering where that line is and who sets it? I know all about liquify and how its used deceptively by photo editors. Im just confused after you manipulate an image so its not the same as the original, just how far can you go? Its just that you sounded a bit sanctimonious when you said photo manipulation was a disgrace to the trade. Some would say what you do is too much. When it comes to Photoshop I love it and I dont really think there is a line that has to be drawn. After all if a photo stops looking like a photo then its obvious to all who see it and no deception. Your slimming with liquify might still look like a photo but its done deceptively. When I look at a photo/painting at least I know what Im looking at instead of getting screwed around by a deceptive image created with a Photoshop plugin.

Tirediron there is a software called Perfect365. I dont know if it will help you but it does amazing things with faces and eye manipulation is one of the things it does really well. Subtle yet well done and all automatically.

I'm glad you keep putting words in my mouth. I never said that photomanipulation is a disgrace to the trade.

I said altering a photo to a point where you're adding elements that didn't exist in the first place is a disgrace to the trade.

What I am speaking of is simply modifying a photo to appease the viewers eye. In other words, if the stomach of your model is pooched out too far because she didn't suck in strong enough in one photo, but it's a great pose, tuck it in with Liquify.

If you got the wrong angle on her arm and it makes it look fat, adjust it to look proportionate.

I'm not replacing her arm with one that's not hers, or putting someone else's stomach on her, I'm simply fixing the image. Once more, the same as you would remove pimples, moles, or scars, and the same way you would whiten teeth and enhance the whites in someone's eyes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Most reactions

ClickASnap
Top