I hate working for people

CNCO · Mar 10, 2011

Its funny, I got into photography a while back to take the best picture possible of my daughter and her childhood etc... From that I evolved to a motorsports challenge and I enjoy shooting motorsports and sports. Now I am not the best in the world but I do take some pretty good shots or so I have been told. What I am sick n tired of is the business aspect of photography. No one wants to pay us for our services only the images we sell. What a complete joke, show up to my event do your thing and if you sell, you sell.

Not to pick on wedding photographers but I doubt there is one wedding photographer that will show up to a wedding and sell the images to the bride n groom. Its a set fee for the day as every other event should be. I have invested close to 3k in equipment and I will say that I am done with the showing up to an event to just sell my images.

The problem is that if you keep denying clients you have nothing current to show a new potential client. Any ways to get around this?

Bynx · Mar 10, 2011

I'd say until the time comes when you are so good and your photos are so distinctive that when someone sees one they know you shot it. When you are that good then you can call the shots. In the mean time its a paying hobby for you. The reason I never ever want money for my photos is because first, I'm not good enough, and second its fun for me. When it stops being fun and I think of the money then Id give up the camera and buy into another hobby. I know what you're saying about your time being valuable and if wedding photographers get paid for their time as well as their prints why shouldn't you? Are you asked by someone to attend the events? If yes, then tell them your rate and how you expect to be paid. Ten years ago I said I hated working for people. I stopped and never have, and never will again.

CNCO · Mar 10, 2011

Well the thing is I am being asked to shoot sports in the spring n summer. I'd like to upgrade my body but there is no point of me doing so if I shoot sports n get paid on the images I sell. Sure I could make 1000$ a weekend, I could make 0$. There are companies that expect you to have the nicest equipment n pay you nothing. Sure its a hobby / supplemental income thing but we should be respected for our knowledge and services. Doing sports I'd like a d700 or d7000. For family photos my d80 and sb-900 will be just fine.

Bynx · Mar 10, 2011

Is there a way to come to an agreement? You get paid a flat rate and for that they get so many prints. That way you will be guaranteed a certain amount of money and they are guaranteed a certain number of prints. They should have some confidence in you if they want you to show up so they should also have confidence they will get satisfactory prints. Remember, in the end, whatever you choose to do is YOUR choice. And you can never get stupid people to have respect for the talents of others. Continue to have fun with your camera. By the way if I wanted to upgrade my camera it would be for the sake of taking better pics of my family rather than taking pics of someone else's.

gsgary · Mar 10, 2011

How do you sellprints ? i print on the day with a dye sub printer, next weekend i am shooting at a 400+ dog agility show but this year i'm notshooting action shots i will be setting up a studio and shooting portraits of the dogs because i have found it to be a bigger earner, i don't think $3k is much to spend a dye sub printer costs £1000 plus my camera gear i hate to think what it's worth

KmH · Mar 10, 2011

CNCO said:
I hate working for people

The business aspect of photography is mostly about people/business/marketing/promotion/salesmanship skills, and less about photography skill.

skieur · Mar 10, 2011

To paraphrase and corrupt a quote from current television advertising related to Canadian banks: "If you hate working for people, then don't work for people."

I work for companies or organizations and I get paid for projects, productions, presentations, so my time is automatically included in my rates.

skieur

flea77 · Mar 10, 2011

I apologize if this sounds rude, but if you are that upset with the business of photography, get out of the business. Make it a hobby, don't charge for anything. In any business you have to market, wheel and deal, ignore those who won't pay and go for those who will.

One problem you have is you seem to think 3k is a lot for photography equipment. Heck, my last lens is a 3k lens, by itself. 3k in equipment is what the father of the football player in highschool has at his son's game.

Next problem is your target. Most shots in sports today are for web use (72dpi so a nice 6mp camera be overkill) or to print in the newspaper (you have seen the quality of those, right?). Then you have every Tom, Dick and Harry carrying a camera wanting to shoot for free. Why should they pay you? Until you can confidently answer that question you are in deep trouble.

Allan

imagemaker46 · Mar 13, 2011

If you want to play photographer and make money you have to use the right gear, improve your skills, hustle your ass off and deal with people. If you hate dealing with people then just stick to doing it as a hobby. You like shooting sports but according to your list of gear you are under-equiped for the majority of sports. With digital and the cost of gear dropping and getting better all teh weekend amateurs with full time jobs are buying gear and out there giving photos away. You have a full time job and yet you also want to cut into the professional full time photo market, eveytime this happens some full time guy is losing out, guys like you are taking food off the tables of the professionals. What gets me is that you are on here complaning that you aren't being treated nicely by people, or respected by people for your skills and experience. You can't make enough hobby money, you ever wonder how your hobby money affects the pro that owns all the right gear, that has real bills to pay, that waits for a pay cheque from some deadbeat client, and still has to work his ass off trying to find new clients everyday of the week? Only to find out that some amateur has offered to cover the event ofr a free pass and give away the photos.

Working with people is what this business is all about, if you don't like working with people, shoot flowers.

chammer · Mar 15, 2011

imagemaker46: Can you please give it a rest already? I've read a number of your posts in Cinka's thread under General Shop Talk that kept regurgitating this same old BS, and now you're taking over this thread with it. Oh boohoo, poor pro can't make it anymore because of some hobbyist. Times change. Things change. Adapt, or gtfo.

People here are looking for advice to either turn pro or assistance with being pro. I of course can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think too many appreciate some "pro" showing up out of the blue with no history here crying about how us amateurs and hobbyists are killing the industry. Get over yourself.

c.cloudwalker · Mar 15, 2011

chammer said:
imagemaker46: Can you please give it a rest already? I've read a number of your posts in Cinka's thread under General Shop Talk that kept regurgitating this same old BS, and now you're taking over this thread with it. Oh boohoo, poor pro can't make it anymore because of some hobbyist. Times change. Things change. Adapt, or gtfo.

Hey chammer, we don't see you much anymore but this is a very good post. Am I the only one here who thinks this guy has lost his job to an amaturrrrrrrrrrrrrre?

chammer · Mar 15, 2011

Hi, you! Aye, I lurk more than post anymore. I don't have much to offer, and my shots are kinda in a transition period while I figure out some stuff so I don't post them much either. Although, I did fall in love with the 5Dc as was suggested last year...so much so that two weeks ago I picked up a 5D Mark II. Really enjoying this full frame stuff.

...and yea, it does seem to be the case with this guy that he's had a job or two stolen maybe. I hate to be harsh or the like to anyone when I post, but from what I've read of his it's nothing but whine whine whine. I just couldn't hold my tongue.

PhotoWrangler · Mar 15, 2011

The reason that wedding photographers get paid for their time, is because the clients WANT them there. They NEED them there.

People don't go to a sporting event for the photography, they go for the sports. They don't NEED a photographer.

It's the same reason that Car Lovers Carwash makes more money than the drive through at the corner Chevron station. People go to Car Lovers with the intent to get their car washed. People go to the Chevron for gas, the carwash is just the $7 button you push on accident after you fill up.

flea77 · Mar 15, 2011

ChristopherCoy said:
The reason that wedding photographers get paid for their time, is because the clients WANT them there. They NEED them there.

People don't go to a sporting event for the photography, they go for the sports. They don't NEED a photographer.

It's the same reason that Car Lovers Carwash makes more money than the drive through at the corner Chevron station. People go to Car Lovers with the intent to get their car washed. People go to the Chevron for gas, the carwash is just the $7 button you push on accident after you fill up.

I have to disagree. People go to weddings to get married just like they go to Chevron to get gas, they hire photographers to help remember or preserve the event. Sports are the same, they need a photographer just as much for the newspapers, sports magazines, yearbook, etc.

Allan

imagemaker46 · Mar 15, 2011

Seems that I have made more new friends on here than expected. I realize that my personal views aren't too popular, can't say as I really care if they are or not. I express an opinion from the pro side and all the other camera owners get upset. I have offered constructive comments on here, and negative ones as well, but I really haven't told anyone to stfu or gtfo. So I'm new to this forum, at what point do I get to have an opinion, so what if I showed up and pissed a few people off, I could have come in and said "all is well with the photo world, everyone have a joy joy day, shoot some more flowers and dogs and pretend to be a concert photographer/wedding/sports photographer as it's the easiest thing to do", it's all good that seems to be how all mindless drones on here want a photo forum to be like. Sorry not the way I am, I don't take this stuff personally, I just tell it like it is. I think everyone on here is wonderful and doing a wonderful job taking wonderful photos.

Is that better? Are the kiddies happy now?