I hate working for people

[CNCO]

Bennielou, I believe the OP was frustrated at the lack of interest in people wanting to hire him and that they wanted to see the photos before buying them. While I can understand his frustration, he is also not working as a professional, does not have a business and is under equiped for what he wants to shoot, which is sports. On top of it all he's believed his family and friends when they said he does great work. Clearly from looking at his flickr web site he has a long way to go, this is the web site he posted in another thread. www.brianciancio.com

Imagemaker, I am starting to see why people get frustrated with you. You aren't reading the posts, you are skimming them.
Yes, he has a ways to go, but he isn't total crap.

He has that thing you can't buy with gear. He has an eye.

Does he have a ways to go? Yes. But I think he is well ahead of most people with a pile of gear that have no idea what to do with it. Is he ready to turn pro today? No. But if he works with others, I think he has a good shot.

JMO.

thanks, i can take decent to good shots but not WOW. for only doing photography for a year with no guidance except a thephotoforum degree im happy with my stuff. my images are not edited either. there are a lot of shots here that are all post production and they look great. i should invest some time dodging and burning like everyone else.

 

[CNCO]

bennilou, I welcome your nit piks on my photos. Do your homework before you start ragging on someone. You have no idea who I am as a photographer. You jumped to a conclusion, and a wrong one at that.

and who the hell are you? lets see your work. you sure talk like you know what you are talking about.

 

[camz]

Man you two are on every thread I've visited so far today.

C'mon I think it's time :hug::

You two are professionals...it's time for you to go out there and shoot and make some darn money! :camera:

 

[imagemaker46]

CNCO, my web site is www.scottgrant.photoshelter.com You can find a lot of my work there, in one of many galleries, I would suggest the featured favourites gallery, some of my well, favourites. I will be adding a motorsports gallery when I get back home.

In regards to your post, you shouldn't be expected to work for free. There are times when I do shoot sports on spec and post a link to my web site so that if anyone on the teams that I shot are interested in buying they can just download the hi res files, sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't. I leave the photos online for a week, and then they come down, if the teams haven't bought anything in the first week, it's unlikely they will. If I'm not working which isn't all the time and I have nothing better to do, I'll take a chance to make a few bucks shooting this way.

 

[kasperjd4]

@ CNCO:

Just out of curiosity, who are these big companies that we would never dream of working for? I'm really just curious who you've worked for.


I had written out a really good critique of your hockey and racing photos, but I accidentaly hit the back key so oh well. The blunt of it is this: the hockey shots aren't personal enough, humans naturally emote when seeing other peoples faces. Body language and faces have a lot to do with that. Try to get more shots of this. You do have a good eye for the high-action shots. For the racing shots, good, but watch your exposure and keep working on panning.

Also, they can expect people to shoot their events and do it for free! Because people are going to! With the digital era, and DSLR's becoming more of a consumer product, mom and dad can easily buy a dslr and shoot the event and give the entire team the photos. The difference is you need to make your photos stand out.They need to look at yours and be like D**N that's a CNCO photo and it's the best photo anyone here could have taken.

One lady I work with was a huge sports photographer in California back in the day, she gave me some advice on sports photography so I'll pass it on. With the digital era, moms and dads can now take pictures anywhere, everywhere, and they can be pretty good since DSLR's are so cheap. She started working individually for certain families of the players at games, instead of shooting the whole thing and trying to sell to everyone. This way you build relationships with the families that will last years and years, and get you work with them in other areas besides sports. And they will pay you for your time, and then pay for selective prints.

 

[kasperjd4]

CNCO, my web site is www.scottgrant.photoshelter.com You can find a lot of my work there, in one of many galleries, I would suggest the featured favourites gallery, some of my well, favourites. I will be adding a motorsports gallery when I get back home.

In regards to your post, you shouldn't be expected to work for free. There are times when I do shoot sports on spec and post a link to my web site so that if anyone on the teams that I shot are interested in buying they can just download the hi res files, sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't. I leave the photos online for a week, and then they come down, if the teams haven't bought anything in the first week, it's unlikely they will. If I'm not working which isn't all the time and I have nothing better to do, I'll take a chance to make a few bucks shooting this way.

See that's what I'm talking about. Those are personal sports photos. You can see the faces and they make you emote. I can see the sweat running down the football players face, and see his body language as he's exerting everything he has.

 

[MSnowy]

bennilou, I welcome your nit piks on my photos. Do your homework before you start ragging on someone. You have no idea who I am as a photographer. You jumped to a conclusion, and a wrong one at that.

and who the hell are you? lets see your work. you sure talk like you know what you are talking about.

Well, I took a look Scotts (imagemaker46) website and I'd have to say he does some amazing work. I think that those of us that are interested in shooting sports will learn alot from his advice .

 

[CNCO]

One guy that works for SI and Nike and NCAA and the other works for Abercrombie n Guess. I wouldn't mind getting consistent work from these companies. Maybe they were being nice who knows. I have also been critiqued very hard. Your photos are your own interpretation of the subject. Look at art, Jackson pollack is crap but his work became very famous - why? Let's agree to disagree and let's help others instead of trashing each other. If you like my stuff great if not can't make everyone happy.

I disagree with the fact that anyone can be a photographer. You need an eye and know how to use a camera. If I gave a D3x to a random hockey mom she would have better equipment but would she know how to set a custom white balance in a rink? Her photos would be yellowish even on auto. Would she know what lens to use? Well this kit lens is 55-200, yeah at 200 your aperture is 5.6. I have 2.8 with better glass. You have to know how to use your stuff and know the sport to get the best angle. I know I could use a better body but I can't justify 4k on a body unless I'm getting compensated. I could use longer glass but again I have to be compensated. My equipment is just fine at taking pics of my daughter and other things. Maybe I'll get a break maybe not.

 

[CNCO]

Image-maker good shots but nothing says wow. Long glass will always help. Getting a press pass will also give you the opportunity to take those photos.what are you doing these days?

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Image-maker good shots but nothing says wow. Long glass will always help. Getting a press pass will also give you the opportunity to take those photos.what are you doing these days?

:shock:













get it while it's still hot!

 

[imagemaker46]

CNCO, nothing says wow, your opinion, I wouldn't have expected anything more from you. January I shot the Canadian Figure Skating Championships, February was the Canada Winter Games,(23 sports in 10 days) I just finished shooting the World swimming trials. In between was the editing and getting the 18,000 images burned to dvd's and handed off to the clients. I fly back home in two days, have a couple of corporate shoots, May I have an International diving meet and some canoe/kayak to shoot.

Yes long glass helps, but it isn't the long glass that defines the photographer, it's the images that are produced. I'm hired by the sports to shoot for them because they know I can deliver every time, without question. It also takes timing, understanding every sport, shooting in every light condition and not making any mistakes, missing any shots and spending 15-17 hours a day shooting for in some cases, 15-20 days in a row. Looking at my favourites is a small cross sample of what I shoot. Each event I shoot produces between 2000-10,000 images that are all as consistant as the other. That's the difference between being a weekend warrior and working a professional. My work has always talked for me, if I couldn't back up what I say with what I shoot, I wouldn't say anything.

CNCO rent some long glass, even a 300 2.8 and try shooting, the longer the glass the tougher it is to shoot, add a 400 2.8. or 500-4.5 and a 1.4 and try to shoot, the tigher you are to the action the more difficult it is, it's not the other way around. I could shoot everything with a 70-2002.8 and shoot loose and crop everything, like most amateurs do, nothing wrong with that. But don't use the long glass as being easier, far from it. The longer the glass the tighter the image and the less forgiving it is when you miss.

Could you afford to miss when someone is paying for you to shoot? I can't.

 

[imagemaker46]

Hey Bitter you got extra butter on that popcorn, better pop up some more.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Funny how someones smug mug site magically disappeared.

 

[kasperjd4]

Funny how someones smug mug site magically disappeared.

Thats what I was thinking when I tried finding his website.


CNCO, So people that worked for SI and Guess said they liked your photos? Sweet! I work as an assistant for a "guy" whose shot sports and covers for SI for 22 years. One of the head designers at Chopard said she liked my photos. Mr. Armani said he liked my photos when I met him at a private event in NY. I've also been flown to the Bahamas to shoot for another guy who owns 27 ferrari, lamborghini, and maserati dealerships. My ex's mom who was runner-up for miss america, and one of the best models for Hawaiian tropic also said my photos were amazing, infact she ordered prints from me. Am I an amazing photographer.

Now, am I a good photographer? NO!!! Some of my photos are good, but all them have stuff that I don't like.I have so much to learn I can't even believe it... Everyone will say they like your photos. It's when they start hiring you to work for them, you might actually have good photos. But do I usually boast about this stuff? Never! Because I want my work to speak for itself, not who I know.

Like Bob Gilka said: "Don't worry about proving yourself; just IMprove yourself."

 

[imagemaker46]

This is his flickr site www.brianciancio.com If this was the one that had disappered, or did he have another one with better images? I really don't care if CNCO thinks my photos are average, and talking about about the SI photographers doesn't impress me. I sat with Manny Millan(one of SI's all time greats) at the 1992 Winter Olympics shooting figure skating and gave him tips, real gentleman. I sat with Heinz Kluetmeier(SI photo editor) at the 2005 World Aquatics Championships. I could continue on but what's the point, there really isn't one, only don't try throwing water balloons when I have rocks to throw back.