"If they pay me more"...

Discussion in 'General Shop Talk' started by ORourkeK, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. ORourkeK

    ORourkeK No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Yes, I have left the group. Thanks for the follow-up. You have explained what I have been trying to say, just more eloquently. I never thought about restricting myself via travel time. Of course, I would expect the cost to be covered by the clients. Is that an arrogant statement? I thought this was pretty standard.


     
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  2. Grandpa Ron

    Grandpa Ron No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    I find "if they paid me more" a very poor excuse.

    But I think the one thing people have not considered is perhaps the photographer was quite happy with the photographs or perhaps satisfied enough. More importantly, were his customer's happy with them?

    Back in the film days, I learned that most of the wedding photos were taken with grandma's Kodak Holiday camera. They were carried around in a purse and shown to family and friends. The Pro photos were 8 x 10 and sitting in an album on a shelf somewhere.

    It is true that a well edited shot will always outshine a poorly edited shot; especially when compared side by side. But, given the multitude of cell phone photos shot at a wedding, I do not the folks really care so much about a well edited shot.

    Heck, these days you can even Bokeh out the background for that artistic look. :)
     
  3. DanOstergren

    DanOstergren TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    I guess it depends on the circumstances. In several instances I have been hired to photograph models, but the agency didn't want to pay for editing. So guess what? They didn't get editing. Yes, theres something to be said about "work ethic" and taking pride in the photos we deliver, but time is money and retouching skills are highly specialized and valuable, and that value needs to be respected. If a paying client doesn't see the value in editing, I don't see a reason to deliver edited photos unless said editing was already part of the agreement, or if I love the photo and WANT to edit it.
     
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  4. ORourkeK

    ORourkeK No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Thanks for the perspective. I never thought of editing being separate from the process, but your comment about the agency brings up a good point. Do you know if that agency turned around and paid someone else to edit the photos?
     
  5. DanOstergren

    DanOstergren TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    Not to my knowledge, but I wouldn't be upset if they did; perhaps they like another retoucher's style or skill over my own. I know plenty of retouchers who do much better work than I do. One of the models did contact me and paid me to retouch his favorites though.

    It's a very involved process that takes time and care, and in most instances I include editing in my rate or bid without explaining that editing is part of the total. If a potential client asks for cheaper prices, I'll break down the costs for them, and sometimes the editing is sacrificed. I personally don't believe editing should be a crutch and still put a lot of work towards making the images great at the moment of exposure, so I'm confident in my unedited photos. That said, if a photographer isn't putting that sort of care into the exposure itself, saying "if they pay me more I'll do it" probably isn't going to be a good look for them.
     
  6. smoke665

    smoke665 TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    @DanOstergren having seen many fine examples of your work, I have serious doubts that your images would ever require editing to remove mistakes such as the OP listed. That said, I thought I read somewhere that agencies preferred shots without editing so as to evaluate the model in their raw form.
     
  7. CherylL

    CherylL TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    I think it takes awhile to train your eye for distractions in the background. When I first started on this forum that was mentioned quite a bit to check all 4 corners of your frame before taking a photo. It took me several years to do this naturally and I still on occasion miss something. I took photos for a friend's masters degree last year. We were at a park and I did check the background except about 6 photos had her shoes off to the side. She had changed from flats to heels once we got to a setting. It didn't take too long to edit out the shoes, but added time on the normal editing & culling.
     
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  8. JoeU

    JoeU TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    “A photographer is known by what he shows....”

    Any photographer worthy of the title puts his/her best foot forward, period.
     
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  9. vintagesnaps

    vintagesnaps Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Elvis has left the group... Maybe you'll find a group that's a better fit.

    I think the time editing is usually part of the contracted work and time. I think that's the thing about creative work, you're getting paid for your talent, time you spent learning and practicing and developing skills, your professional expertise and abillity to work with people and provide finished images in a timely manner, etc. etc. That's what seems to make it harder to price.

    I found the same thing Cheryl, that I learned to make my eye move around the viewfinder and look at each corner. Over time it seems I got to the point of being able to take in everything in that rectangle all at once without consciously thinking about it. And you're right about it taking experience, and I think liking it enough to practice practice practice without it being a chore. I've been a photographer forever, and I still like to go out and take pictures, I've never stopped liking it.
     
  10. DanOstergren

    DanOstergren TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    I've worked with many different agencies, and all of them have different expectations. I don't think there is any set rule, except that each of them has preferred that models not have their pores completely wiped away, as many photographers unfortunately love to do. I think preferring unedited images is a myth however, as most agencies use editorial images in their model's books, all of which have received a high end retouching treatment.
     
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