If You Have Nothing to Say, Don't Say Anything at All

[Designer]

Sometimes the poster has brought it on himself by a simple one-word plea: "Thoughts?"

WTH are we supposed to do with that?

A few months ago some of us attempted to create a sticky giving new posters wanting C&C some guidelines as to what kinds of comments lead to better criticism, but it seemingly went nowhere.

Occasionally I see a photograph that is SO GOOD that all I can do is make words like; "very good" or some such. This is not intended to shortchange the OP, just that I really don't have anything to add.

Then, there are photographs that are SO BAD that I get the distinct feeling we are being set up to see how many "good job" comments they can get on a crappy photo. I am not talking about the ones where someone has experienced problems, and admits it, but just the all-too-familiar "Thoughts?" BS.

 

[unpopular]

But basically telling people to shut the f**k up if they can't or don't do that, and instead summarize their views into a few words, is pure bulls**t.

I guess I just don't have a lot of tolerance for people who choose not to improve their critical thinking abilities.

--

and I don't mean to discourage positive one-liners, not at all. but the negative ones are just totally useless.

 

[unpopular]

Sometimes the poster has brought it on himself by a simple one-word plea: "Thoughts?"

But then, at the same time, when someone goes into any amount of detail about what an image means to them they're hounded with idiotic pop photography lines like "a photo should stand on it's own without explanation!"

It's very hard to get honest feedback, especially when you're trying to do things outside the norm.

 

[ShooterJ]

I get where you're coming from with this thread. I would agree with it insofar as to say that negative garbage has no place in it. I think as long as it stays constructive, whether a positive one liner or a detailed critique with good information, everyone involved is going to learn something.

 

[cgipson1]

I see images all the time that get "WOW... Great photo" from noobs, and I just shake my head. Not at the brevity of the comment, but the fact that they think it is a great photo! lol! It is an educational thing... if they can't see what it wrong with an image, how can they possibly say much about it?

Hopefully as they get more knowledge, they will be able to comment more intelligently, and verbosely! But telling them not to comment? Not really appropriate (although I do understand the sentiment!)

 

[pixmedic]

LOL @ the crop!
Portrait orientation!
Bad lighting!
terrible Posing!
just a snapshot!
WB is off!
Color is bad!
Read a book on photography!
Bin that one!
Etc Etc...

none of those "critiques" offer any insight whatsoever to help the OP with their picture. even if those issues are obvious to the person giving the C&C, if they were so obvious to the OP, they would have posted the picture with those corrections already done.
IE: it does precious little good to scream TERRIBLE WB at the OP if the OP has no idea how to fix the WB, or even what to look for in proper WB.
If you are giving C&C, and you feel yourself knowledgeable enough to critique a photo and point out what is wrong with it....then you should, in fact, be knowledgeable enough to offer some suggestions as to how the OP can correct the issues you found.
this is of course, just how I personally feel about people posting critique citing faults in a picture without offering assistance in the fixing of it.

 

[imagemaker46]

Nice post. I know that some people aren't really looking for a critique of their images but end up getting them anyway. Some posts are looking for a critique and when they don't get any responses they get upset, but for some of these images there is nothing wrong with the photos and a few words is all that can be said. I will comment in the field I know best, but will make a short comment on a photo I do really like.

What does happen and it is along the lines of this thread is people that really think they know what they are talking about start to pass out suggestions, but they themselves don't have the skills to be offering the advice. I will add suggestions based on my knowledge, and it's not always technical knowledge, as I have stated many time, I am not a technical photographer. I usually offer simple fixes or observations that can be applied to help improve. I will also comment if the photos are nothing more than happy snaps. I don't candy coat comments, and I don't think it helps if people do, but I will try and give a good reason why, to bad if some people can't accept the comments, that's photo life, and it won't get easier.

 

[unpopular]

I've learned a long time ago in art school that the best way to learn about art is to discuss it.

Critique I hink helps the critic understand photography more than it helps the photographer. This is why I also think having a good, productive dialog between the artist and the critic is very beneficial so that the photographer can better understand their own position. Unfortunately, people often see this as the photographer simply being overly defensive - to me this comes across as if critic's opinion is more valid than the artists, a kind of 'sit down and stfu' kind of approach to critique.

 

[Buckster]

But basically telling people to shut the f**k up if they can't or don't do that, and instead summarize their views into a few words, is pure bulls**t.

I guess I just don't have a lot of tolerance for people who choose not to improve their critical thinking abilities.

Your statement that those who make less verbose comments have made a choice "not to improve their critical thinking abilities" is a non sequitur; a logical fallacy, thereby violating the very idea of critical thinking itself.

 

[unpopular]

While I cannot deny that the statement was non sequitur, my point of this was to encourage critical analysis in critique. a critique by nature is critical, and therefor criticism which lacks critical analysis is not a critique. Since we're here for critique, and not the impulsive and bigoted viewpoints of casual observation, I don't see a role for such statements.

oh, and also Buckster...

An argument of hypocrisy is, in itself, fallacious. Two can play that game.

 

[ShooterJ]

I'm a pretty sharp guy, despite being a blunt instrument for most of my adult life... I know that if a photo looks nice to me, it may need some work under the scrutiny of someone with more experience. I know that when I say what I can, based on my experience, which might be "Nice shot"... someobody MORE experienced is going to come along and give more useful C&C whether I thought it was nice or not.. and that's great. It teaches me something as well and it improves my ability to not only comment but to take better photos myself.

I don't see it appropriate for me to leave a comment like "Nice shot, but I'm not that good... what do you pros think about this? Is it total ****?"

I'm being dramatic, but the point being... I would rather comment on what I understand and let the more experienced people provide details about how somebody can improve. If I DO have something I can comment on, I usually will. But I don't try to pass myself off as being an expert on something that I'm not an expert on.

It would be like somebody telling a rookie partner of mine "If you get in trouble out there, take cover behind the door" .. when I know damn well it won't stop a bangers 9mm... it would be more appropriate for that person to tell the rookie "Stay safe"... a simple one liner that conveys a positive message without giving the wrong advice.

 

[unpopular]

And like I said, I really didn't mean to discourage "nice shot", there's no need to get too elaborate. But I think it does help to ask yourself what you see in it that you think makes it a nice shot and elaborate, even if it's something obvious.

There has to be SOME reason. It's nice to know what we've specifically done right.

 

[ShooterJ]

And like I said, I really didn't mean to discourage "nice shot", there's no need to get too elaborate. But I think it does help to ask yourself what you see in it that you think makes it a nice shot and elaborate, even if it's something obvious.

It's nice to know what we've specifically done right.

Ok, I get that and it's a good point. I'll keep it in mind and elaborate on what I like, even if I don't see flaws. No harm in that since someone else with more experience is going to provide the other side of it anyway. Btw, I don't intend to offend with any of this... and I do appreciate the different perspectives.

 

[unpopular]

Just remember, if a gun is pointed at you, grab a pillow

 

[Buckster]

While I cannot deny that the statement was non sequitur, my point of this was to encourage critical analysis in critique.

I was providing critical analysis, a critique if you will, of your use of actual words. You're welcome.

a critique by nature is critical, and therefor criticism which lacks critical analysis is not a critique.

That is your opinion and you're welcome to it. A critique is not validated or invalidated based on the number of words or expansion of thought, nor on the experience or verbal abilities of the person making the critique. It is, in its simplest form, an expressed opinion, and that can be done in a few words.

Since we're here for critique,

That assumption is unfounded. YOU may be here for critique. Others may also be here for critique. But that doesn't mean that "we", everyone, is here for critique, either to give OR receive it.

And my point, once again, is that telling anyone to shut up if they're not going to meet YOUR expectations in leaving comments that go into enough detail for your liking, is bulls**t.