Image from the gutter

[photojunky]

http://www.onlinephotogallery.com/

 

[craig]

With all due respect, random shots of the homeless are a tough deal. If you are interested it is important to get to know your subject. Spend time with them and get to know their story. Certainly you have seen the work of Margaret Bourke White.

 

[wwjoeld]

thats pretty ignorant, not only were you taking pictures of this poor guy while he is sleeping, you throw a title like "image from the gutter" on it.
Brutal

 

[manda]

I'm sure Photojunky did not mean any harm by using that term for the title. I hope so anyway.
Its very hard to know where the line is drawn. When does it become photojournalism?
I once took a photograph of a lady in the street without her permission and felt guilty about it afterwards. She wasn't sleeping but I should have spoken to her first.

Its a very fine line but I doubt Photojunky meant harm.

 

[wwjoeld]

i did not mean to put it so harshly, i think photographing the homeless is okay.......if you put the effort into talking to them and letting them know what you are doing

when i first started taking pictures, i did the same thing you did manda, i took a picture of a homeless guy and i felt reall guilty, and to tell you the truth it was a great shot. I just couldnt bring myself to show it off or do anything with it. So i actually threw those negs out.

I was just offended because, the guy is sleeping with a blanket over his head...his only privacy in the world....and someone is snapping pictures of him.

I also tend to speak my mind right away, so i may put into words that could be said a a little bit nicer......I will jump down someones throat before i see both sides.....a little weakness of mine. But i will always stand by what i said.

 

[wwjoeld]

i just looked at your site photojunky....those are great photos of the homeless people. They know you are there, and you can see the real side of them. You should post some of those here.

 

[photojunky]

Get to know them first? Are you crazy? In this case I did just take the shot but usually always offer a dollar per/shot. Now back to the homeless issue. I probably know these people better than most of you due to my profession. Many of these people have absolutely no interest in getting out of the gutter. They refuse shelter’s, medical treatment, and benefit’s the city offers. They are so far gone they do not even make the attempt to walk to the gutter to use go to the bathroom. On my walk to work I am forced to carefully navigate around their urine and fecal matter. They fight with storeowners who try to move them along. That’s when I’m called to the rescue, usually by someone who once shared the same attitude you have, although all that has now changed. In my city, more than 75 percent of the homeless have criminal records, and many have violent criminal records. In my city the “hobo” is dead and the bums have prevailed. The reason this photo below is so great is because it is out of fantasy land. He doesn’t exist anymore.

Hey, no hard feelings. Just saying it the way I see it. Maybe in your city the hobo lives.

 

[photojunky]

Margaret Bourke White. I have heard of her but did not know her work until I just looked her up on the web. She was great. Some of her photos are really powerful. I will buy one of her books today or tomorrow.

I am planning on doing a series of homeless shots, mostly close-ups with a medium format camera (RB67 Pro.) I will be asking permission and offering a small donation in exchange, however I do disagree with the need of getting to know the subject as wwjoeld suggested. I’ve heard the same story over and over and frankly I‘m sick of it. So when I am called ignorant by wwjoeld for taking the picture of what he calls some poor guy, without having any idea who that poor guy really is, I get a little annoyed. This debate reminds me of a photo I saw in National Geographic. I don’t know where it was but it was of a girl stuck in the mud after a monsoon had hit. Her eyes are glassed over and she looks near death. A couple of feet away was her dead father also stuck in the mud. I always thought it was really shitty of the photographer to photograph her instead of pulling her out of the mud. Who knows, she may have lived. Sorry about the rant but that topic really hits home.

 

[wwjoeld]

so that hits home for you huh?

have you lived on the street.....i dont think so.

I lived out of a car for over 2 months, and if i knew some asshole with a camera was taking pictures of me while i was sleeping i would get up and beat the sh*t out of the guy.

what i meant by get to know them was maybe ask how they were doing, what there name was and if you could by them a coffee.

You say you offer them a dollar, for there photo, but those guys are sleeping. You whispered in there ear. Yeah right.

 

[vonnagy]

so that hits home for you huh?

have you lived on the street.....i dont think so.

I lived out of a car for over 2 months, and if i knew some asshole with a camera was taking pictures of me while i was sleeping i would get up and beat the sh*t out of the guy.

what i meant by get to know them was maybe ask how they were doing, what there name was and if you could by them a coffee.

You say you offer them a dollar, for there photo, but those guys are sleeping. You whispered in there ear. Yeah right

come on now,
if you have a beef with someone, private message please... its no fun for the rest of us to endure this.

Its very easy to jump to conclusions especially if its a sensitive subject, but remember you don't really know the person you aiming your anger at, its so easy to do if you are seperated by miles of internet cabling. Would you say something like that if he was standing next to you? Maybe. But just as Photojunky did not know about your life experiences, neither do you know about his.

We value you both of has humans and photographers and for the value you add to the photoforum, however this anger does not add value to the community we ALL share here. Both of you enrich this place with your photography and life experiences but lets share that in a constructive manner.

Peace out bros

 

[photojunky]

Thank you vonnagy.

As a matter of fact I squatted/lived in a burned out abandoned warehouse in Oakland for three months with a bunch of bikers and speed freaks. And you know what? They were all bums scamming society every chance they got. I had finally hit rock bottom after years of being irresponsible. Then I got my **** together. I never stood on a street corner begging. Instead I pounded the pavement and got a 5-dollar an hour job at a photo lab. Then I got a room, then a better job, and then a house, car, dog, wife, kids, and all the things that a responsible person desires. Because of that period of my life I eat right, exorcise and lift weights religiously to make up for the abuse I put my body through. I hated every minute of that time in my life. So please don’t make assumptions about my life and who I was tough guy. Just out of curiosity, how old are you? I’m going to be the big 40 this year. I bet you’re still in your 20’s, eh?

I stand corrected, if they are conscience, I always offer them a dollar.

Hey, no hard feelings. Can we get back to photography?

http://www.onlinephotogallery.com/

 

[manda]

I think Mark has said it best here.
Yes, lets get back to the photography.
Gentleman, I think most of us would prefer if you took this to PMs if you want to continue your discussion. Thank you.

Love the last shot photojunky.

 

[MDowdey]

That motion has been seconded.


please guys, dont make this site your dumping ground.



md

 

[vonnagy]

think everyone got the point

by the way photojunky, i love the guitarist!!! Those colours are vivid as I ever seen on any photograph!!

 

[tr0gd0o0r]

I hate to push this conversation further, and I'm not trying to get anyone aggrivated (if any of the moderators feel this may push the convo that way feel free to delete this post.) But i was wondering why tou think photographing homeless is such a bad thing. I mean they are just people like everyone else. Do you feel guilty if you take pictures of someone who is walking down the street but has a nice job, house, etc. I guess the reason I say this is because from my dealings with homeless I've always found it best just to treat them like anyone else you know. Except maybe give them something to eat every once in a while.