Is this weird for a photography teacher to say/encourage?

[Austin Greene]

If she makes photos with tilted horizons in the WRONG way, then there's plenty bad about it.

There's a right and a wrong time for tilted horizons.

But she obviously has a market, otherwise she couldn't make a living off of it. Technically, sure it might be wrong, but if she has that much revenue from a market that likes tilted horizons, thats just good business. As another said, if she's doing it well enough to live on it, tilt away!

Many beginners or novices think that there is a "market" for continuously tilted horizons. That market is people who get enjoyment from bad photography.

It's true. Sorry to break it to you.

Tyler, I see what your saying, and I'm sorry to break it to you as well, but what classifies as "technically correct" photography does not always stand in line with what classifies as good business. There are those who do, and then there are those who teach. If she is marketing herself well enough to make a living, regardless of her style or the technical aspects of her photos, there is nothing wrong with that. No one ever said that successful business and technical aspects of photography stood hand in hand. Hell, if a guy could find a market for photos taken with his iphone, and could make a living off of it, I'd take the words of other photographers sitting at home with a grain of salt.

The bottom line is that its quality marketing of someone's technique or style that brings in customers, and thats all that matters at the end of the day so long as the customer is happy. This lady obviously has a market which she successfully caters to. Unless you currently make a living off of your photography, I don't think you or anyone else have much ground to stand on when it comes to criticizing her.


Regardless, I suppose the OP was looking more for whether or not its normal for a teacher to suggest something like tilted horizons as being "ok," and to that I would say that Bitter Jeweler put it best.

 

[brush]

It's important not to confuse incompetence for art...and this forum is full of people anxious to point that out every time a "rule" is broken in an image, especially the easy ones to pick up on like horizons and the rule of 3rds. And a lot of times, hell MOST times, they're right. But equally as important, do not confuse methodical and robotic execution of rules as art either. Are your friends photos aesthetically pleasing and well composed? Then she has an understanding of when the straight horizon "rule" is meant to be broken. She may have had an instructor who saw it in her work back in the day, taught her the "right" way, and commended her for finding ways to improve on what's "right." You'll notice I'm using a lot of quotations in this post, it's because I can't bring myself to treat any of those words with concrete definitions. There are no rules, there are guidelines.

 

[o hey tyler]

But she obviously has a market, otherwise she couldn't make a living off of it. Technically, sure it might be wrong, but if she has that much revenue from a market that likes tilted horizons, thats just good business. As another said, if she's doing it well enough to live on it, tilt away!

Many beginners or novices think that there is a "market" for continuously tilted horizons. That market is people who get enjoyment from bad photography.

It's true. Sorry to break it to you.

Tyler, I see what your saying, and I'm sorry to break it to you as well, but what classifies as "technically correct" photography does not always stand in line with what classifies as good business. There are those who do, and then there are those who teach. If she is marketing herself well enough to make a living, regardless of her style or the technical aspects of her photos, there is nothing wrong with that. No one ever said that successful business and technical aspects of photography stood hand in hand. Hell, if a guy could find a market for photos taken with his iphone, and could make a living off of it, I'd take the words of other photographers sitting at home with a grain of salt.

The bottom line is that its quality marketing of someone's technique or style that brings in customers, and thats all that matters at the end of the day so long as the customer is happy. This lady obviously has a market which she successfully caters to. Unless you currently make a living off of your photography, I don't think you or anyone else have much ground to stand on when it comes to criticizing her.


Regardless, I suppose the OP was looking more for whether or not its normal for a teacher to suggest something like tilted horizons as being "ok," and to that I would say that Bitter Jeweler put it best.

You clearly haven't seen all the "facebook photographers" that add unnecessary tilt to their images. Or even just accidental tilt that they don't fix (like a photographer should) in post processing.

There is a certain time to use an unlevel horizon, and most people do not know when it is IMO. That's all I am saying. You're reading too far into my post. But, remain on your soapbox as you will.

 

[Derrel]

I want to hire a carpenter to do an addition. I'd LIKE to find a guy whose work is basically "tilted", as well as, if possible "crooked". Somebody whose daddy told him his crooked, sloppy junior high school carpentry project was "artistic", and that he was "being true to his inner artistry" when he refused to use a square, rule, or level. I want the floors to be totally effed up, so that everything on wheels, rolls downhill, until it hits the far wall. And any spills spread wayyyyyyyyyy, wayyyyyyy out from their point of origin. And I need this carpenter TODAY. A full-time guy. I think I can find a guy like this on Craigslist. I can't pay him much for the work, say 1/3 the normal rate for a qualified carpenter...

Does anybody know a carpenter like this? A guy whose work is artistically really really crooked and tilty, and whose grasp of the basics is quite sketchy, but who has a steady supply of low-paying clients? Can I get his number? PM me, mmmkay?

 

[Austin Greene]

Many beginners or novices think that there is a "market" for continuously tilted horizons. That market is people who get enjoyment from bad photography.

It's true. Sorry to break it to you.

Tyler, I see what your saying, and I'm sorry to break it to you as well, but what classifies as "technically correct" photography does not always stand in line with what classifies as good business. There are those who do, and then there are those who teach. If she is marketing herself well enough to make a living, regardless of her style or the technical aspects of her photos, there is nothing wrong with that. No one ever said that successful business and technical aspects of photography stood hand in hand. Hell, if a guy could find a market for photos taken with his iphone, and could make a living off of it, I'd take the words of other photographers sitting at home with a grain of salt.

The bottom line is that its quality marketing of someone's technique or style that brings in customers, and thats all that matters at the end of the day so long as the customer is happy. This lady obviously has a market which she successfully caters to. Unless you currently make a living off of your photography, I don't think you or anyone else have much ground to stand on when it comes to criticizing her.


Regardless, I suppose the OP was looking more for whether or not its normal for a teacher to suggest something like tilted horizons as being "ok," and to that I would say that Bitter Jeweler put it best.

You clearly haven't seen all the "facebook photographers" that add unnecessary tilt to their images. Or even just accidental tilt that they don't fix (like a photographer should) in post processing.

There is a certain time to use an unlevel horizon, and most people do not know when it is IMO. That's all I am saying. You're reading too far into my post. But, remain on your soapbox as you will.

But here's where we differ, you are talking about novice photographers, I'm talking about professional photographer who by definition make a majority of their income from their work. Most "Facebook photographers" that you refer to are not actual professionals, and don't really have much to do with the point in question. Still, like I said, I agree with you that there is a time and place for tilt, and that most people don't know how to use it. I'm just saying that people making money by knowing how to use it is not "wrong" as you initially said it was, because if she didn't do it the "right" way, she wouldn't make a living off of it. I think the problem here is that a lot of people are questioning the photographers skill, which we have no right to do if she's the one making a decent chunk of money off of it (implying happy customers), while we sit at home critiquing her.

 

[Tee]

The thing here... we don't know the context in which the teacher was speaking about tilting horizons. Tilted horizons are correct at any time that they do not make you want to tilt your head when viewing the image. If you want to tilt your head to straighten things out-it's not used right.

Mostly beach and lanscape photos. The horizons are never straight. And there is no consistency in the style of the tilts. Just looks like someone who didn't take time to fix it in PP. She doesn't make money off of those photos. She does portrait work.

So her income comes from portraits but her side projects have the tilts? In your intro post it led me to believe she was making coin using her tilted style. I may have to recant my earlier post.

 

[inallseriousness]

I want to hire a carpenter to do an addition. I'd LIKE to find a guy whose work is basically "tilted", as well as, if possible "crooked". Somebody whose daddy told him his crooked, sloppy junior high school carpentry project was "artistic", and that he was "being true to his inner artistry" when he refused to use a square, rule, or level. I want the floors to be totally effed up, so that everything on wheels, rolls downhill, until it hits the far wall. And any spills spread wayyyyyyyyyy, wayyyyyyy out from their point of origin. And I need this carpenter TODAY. A full-time guy. I think I can find a guy like this on Craigslist. I can't pay him much for the work, say 1/3 the normal rate for a qualified carpenter...

Does anybody know a carpenter like this? A guy whose work is artistically really really crooked and tilty, and whose grasp of the basics is quite sketchy, but who has a steady supply of low-paying clients? Can I get his number? PM me, mmmkay?

Yeah, ummm... not really like surgery (mentioned earlier in the thread) OR carpentry. At all. Not even close.

 

[inallseriousness]

You clearly haven't seen all the "facebook photographers" that add unnecessary tilt to their images. Or even just accidental tilt that they don't fix (like a photographer should) in post processing.

Unnecessary according to whom? Who is the arbiter of necessary image tilts?

There is a certain time to use an unlevel horizon, and most people do not know when it is IMO. That's all I am saying. You're reading too far into my post. But, remain on your soapbox as you will.

Again with this appointed time. Please, only use tilted horizons ummm... when was it? Oh yes, to show motion. That is the certain time.

How's that soapbox working? Seems like a pretty good fit.

 

[MTVision]

I'm confused!

 

[Bossy]

The thing is I never stated my opinion on the subject either way. I really didn't intend this thread to turn be a "are tilted horizons acceptable" or not debate. I was merely curious if this could be considered contrete reasonable advice from a teacher.

Don't you have to know one to answer the other? If you have no opinion on the first one, you would've even think to ask the second one.

Re read that. I didn't say I didn't have an opinion. I said I didn't state my opinion.

How about you reread. You said you didn't want it to be a tilted horizon thread, yet the 2 go hand in hand. Its not rocket science.

​

 

[blackrose89]

Don't you have to know one to answer the other? If you have no opinion on the first one, you would've even think to ask the second one.

Re read that. I didn't say I didn't have an opinion. I said I didn't state my opinion.

How about you reread. You said you didn't want it to be a tilted horizon thread, yet the 2 go hand in hand. Its not rocket science.

​

Everyone else is sure making it sound like rocket science. It was a very simple question. But people just read too much into it. It was a very simplistic question. And no, they dont have to go hand in hand. Darrel, overread and Charlie managed to give quick, to the point answers.

 

[o hey tyler]

You clearly haven't seen all the "facebook photographers" that add unnecessary tilt to their images. Or even just accidental tilt that they don't fix (like a photographer should) in post processing.

Unnecessary according to whom? Who is the arbiter of necessary image tilts?

There is a certain time to use an unlevel horizon, and most people do not know when it is IMO. That's all I am saying. You're reading too far into my post. But, remain on your soapbox as you will.

Again with this appointed time. Please, only use tilted horizons ummm... when was it? Oh yes, to show motion. That is the certain time.

How's that soapbox working? Seems like a pretty good fit.

Inallseriousness, in all seriousness, you and your seven posts back you up with no credentials. If you want to start posting some work that you, in all seriousness, think is seriously a good use of tilt I'd be up for that. I said that there is a time and place for having an unlevel horizon. The time and place is not ALL THE TIME.

However at this point I see you as someone who doesn't even attempt to hold a camera level, of lack the knowledge or resources to do so in post.

Troll it up, or post it up. I'd really like to know what your idea of 'good' tilt is. Who knows, I might agree! :thumbup:

 

[LightSpeed]

Don't you have to know one to answer the other? If you have no opinion on the first one, you would've even think to ask the second one.

Re read that. I didn't say I didn't have an opinion. I said I didn't state my opinion.

How about you reread. You said you didn't want it to be a tilted horizon thread, yet the 2 go hand in hand. Its not rocket science.

How in the world does a simple question turn into what you want it to be?
Because you think the two go hand in hand, all of a sudden it becomes a tilted horizon thread?
I have a Goose down pillow. I like it , so I tell someone that I like it. It goes hand in hand with a Goose.
Does that make the subject I was speaking about, change from pillows , to geese?




Anyway, it seems this describes it the best.

Some art teachers are very good
Some are average
and some shouldn't be teaching at all ;-)



In the end remember that all artistic "rules" are only guidelines based upon artistic theory and visual appeal and that there is a lot of them. Common ones like rule of 3rds and straight horizons are only the tip of the iceburg and there is a lot more theory to learn. And this is before you even touch on the idea of fully breaking the "rules". As a result many photos that appear to break the common rules might well only be obeying other, lesser known ones or might be using key reasons to break the rules totally.

Furthermore don't confuse art with style and saleability - sometimes total rubbish sells and if it sells or has its own identity then who are we to argue against it - that part comes down to taste and marketing.

With exception to the part in bold, which is dead on the money......
Some of this "seems to" indicate that I can take a photo anyway I want. So long as I see it as Art, and call it Art and claim that it reflects my artistic abilities, throw in a few more fancy words, claim I intended for the image to be flawed.........throw in some deep dialog about how I felt the image........and VOILAAAAAAAAAA, I'm an artist.

Just say NO to tilted horizons......

 

[analog.universe]

Does anybody know a carpenter like this? A guy whose work is artistically really really crooked and tilty, and whose grasp of the basics is quite sketchy, but who has a steady supply of low-paying clients? Can I get his number? PM me, mmmkay?

Not fully to your specifications... but close...

This dude: Frank Gehry - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is an architect, who gets so many offers for high paying jobs that he has to turn most of them down. His work is decidedly not "straight", "level", or any of that other predictable stuff.

 

[MTVision]

How in the world does a simple question turn into what you want it to be?
Because you think the two go hand in hand, all of a sudden it becomes a tilted horizon thread?
I have a Goose down pillow. I like it , so I tell someone that I like it. It goes hand in hand with a Goose.
Does that make the subject I was speaking about, change from pillows , to geese?

Anyway, it seems this describes it the best.

With exception to the part in bold, which is dead on the money......
Some of this "seems to" indicate that I can take a photo anyway I want. So long as I see it as Art, and call it Art and claim that it reflects my artistic abilities, throw in a few more fancy words, claim I intended for the image to be flawed.........throw in some deep dialog about how I felt the image........and VOILAAAAAAAAAA, I'm an artist.

Just say NO to tilted horizons......

Goose down pillow and goose was a really bad analogy for this thread.....