I've been asked to remove photographs I took for a company from my Flickr account

[Scarlet Siren]

Hi,

Could someone offer me some advice?

I took series of photographs (portraits) for a company over the course of the past few months. I work for this company and offered to take pictures 1) as a kind gesture 2) to practice. I would get a request from a manager as and when and I would happily take the photos as requested out of my own time using my own equipment. I was delighted and flattered to have been asked. The photos I took have been used in various documentation and soon to be launched website.

I haven't uploaded all the photos I've taken, and I made no mention of the company whatsoever but the copyright was in my full name.

I have since been contacted by someone else (a second manager) within the company asking me to remove the photos from Flickr, and provide proof that there is an agreement in place that the company has allowed me to use the photographs I took elsewhere such as Flickr. No formal agreement was made in writing, I will admit that but the email I received is implying the photographs belong to the company since they requested them and are using them. I must stress, that I have no intention of posting the photographs elsewhere such as a blog or Facebook.

I've also been asked to confirm that the photographs taken are available to the company on various other systems, which they are.

Other than remove the images from my Flickr account as requested, which I have already done is there anyway we can come to a mutual agreement I haven't been paid for the photos I've taken but would it be unreasonable to ask, if they want to continue using the photos I've taken that I be suitably credited if not then the company must stop using them at my request?

Please advise, I'm feeling quite stressed out about this

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Forget about it.

You learned something valuable though, that you will be sure to do in the future!

 

[Buckster]

No contract and they haven't paid you in any way? You weren't an employee at the time or something like that?

If that's the case, they're yours. Period. You OWN the copyright. Period.

I'd tell them to cease and desist using YOUR copyrighted images immediately, unless they're willing to PAY YOU for their use.

And let this be a lesson.

1. Always have a contract that protects you.
2. Always submit the images to the US Copyright Office.

 

[Kerbouchard]

Do you work for the company? Were you on the clock when the photos were captured? When you gained access to the location, did you have to sign any paperwork or recieve a ticket that may have terms and conditions regarding usage of photos(often seen at Amusement Parks or Sports Arenas).

If all of those answers are no, they are yours to decide how they are to be used, who can use them, and what sort of compensation you should recieve. They are also yours to share in any self-promotional or editorial way. You cannot use them without a model release for advertising/commercial purposes.

If, on the other hand, you work for the company and were on company time during the shoot, it becomes much more complicated and would require a lawyer to win the battle. Unfortunately, in every contract I have ever signed with an employer, at the end of the job description, it includes a phrase something like, 'and other duties as assigned'. That would tend to put you in the category of being paid to take the photos as part of your job, and just as when you make anything else at work, it doesn't mean you own it.

Edited to add: I just saw your next post where you say you are in the UK. I have no idea what the copyright laws are in the UK. The preceeding post only applies to the U.S.

 

[Scarlet Siren]

No contract and they haven't paid you in any way? You weren't an employee at the time or something like that?

If that's the case, they're yours. Period. You OWN the copyright. Period.

I'd tell them to cease and desist using YOUR copyrighted images immediately, unless they're willing to PAY YOU for their use.

And let this be a lesson.

1. Always have a contract that protects you.
2. Always submit the images to the US Copyright Office.

No contract and no payment. I am an employee but taking photographs isn't part of my role or within my contract, I do a completely different role within the company entirely. It's a well known fact I love taking photographs so I was asked and I was happy to take the photos.

I'm in the UK.

The final part of the email stated something along the lines of 'we appreciate your efforts in taking photographs of our employees but we can't allow you to use them outwith the company'. Really, now.... ???

 

[Scarlet Siren]

Do you work for the company? Were you on the clock when the photos were captured?

If both of those answers are no, they are yours to decide how they are to be used, who can use them, and what sort of compensation you should recieve. They are also yours to share in any self-promotional or editorial way. You cannot use them without a model release for advertising/commercial purposes.

If, on the other hand, you work for the company and were on company time during the shoot, it becomes much more complicated and would require a lawyer to win the battle. Unfortunately, in every contract I have ever signed with an employer, at the end of the job description, it includes a phrase something like, 'and other duties as assigned'. That would tend to put you in the category of being paid to take the photos as part of your job, and just as when you make anything else at work, it doesn't mean you own it.

Yes, I work for them and yes they were taken whist at work, most of which during my lunch break. And I understand what you mean as in 'ad hoc' duties. I guess that's the kicker!

 

[IByte]

I hope you did not send them. What did we learn today kids?
1. Air tight contract.
2. Copyright your photographs.
3. License your photos, and never send them the RAW files.
4. Firm pricing.

If it was me I would say"oops my harddrive crashed, and I lost the photos".

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Yeah, Scarlett, you've got a sticky wicket there.

How much stress can you handle?

 

[Buckster]

I am an employee but taking photographs isn't part of my role or within my contract, I do a completely different role within the company entirely. It's a well known fact I love taking photographs so I was asked and I was happy to take the photos.

Only an attorney qualified in such matters in your country can tell you where you stand, but based on the statement above, you're probably gonna have to eat it.

 

[Kerbouchard]

I added a disclaimer to the post that you quoted. I had not seen that you were from the UK until your following post. What I said applies only to the U.S. While I am sure some of it applies in the UK, I do NOT know UK copyright law.

One thing to add though. You say you took them on your lunch break. As in an 'off the clock' lunch break? Here in the U.S., there are some fairly strict laws about hourly employees working 'off the clock'. So much so that Walmart lost millions of dollars for some of their practices of having employees work through lunch or breaks and not getting paid for it.

If the company is taking the stance that you provided these as part of your work duties, and you can prove that they were taken when you were 'off the clock', the company may have worked itself into a lawsuit by being stupid.

IF the UK laws are similiar(and I imagine they are more strict since you guys seem to be a lot more liberal when it comes to things like this), I would think either way you win. Either they are your images because you took them off company time, or they are the companies images because they made you work off the clock, which would be a labor dispute rather than a copyright dispute.

If it's not a great job or a career for you and you don't mind walking away, it might not be a bad idea to consult an attorney. It all depends on how far you want to take it and what your priorities are.

Do you work for the company? Were you on the clock when the photos were captured?

If both of those answers are no, they are yours to decide how they are to be used, who can use them, and what sort of compensation you should recieve. They are also yours to share in any self-promotional or editorial way. You cannot use them without a model release for advertising/commercial purposes.

If, on the other hand, you work for the company and were on company time during the shoot, it becomes much more complicated and would require a lawyer to win the battle. Unfortunately, in every contract I have ever signed with an employer, at the end of the job description, it includes a phrase something like, 'and other duties as assigned'. That would tend to put you in the category of being paid to take the photos as part of your job, and just as when you make anything else at work, it doesn't mean you own it.

Yes, I work for them and yes they were taken whist at work, most of which during my lunch break. And I understand what you mean as in 'ad hoc' duties. I guess that's the kicker!

 

[Buckster]

One more thing to maybe consider: Are you still an employee with them and, if so, would you like to continue to be an employee with them?

 

[BlueMeanieTSi]

One more thing to maybe consider: Are you still an employee with them and, if so, would you like to continue to be an employee with them?

This.

 

[Josh66]

I have since been contacted by someone else (a second manager) within the company asking me to remove the photos from Flickr, and provide proof that there is an agreement in place that the company has allowed me to use the photographs I took elsewhere such as Flickr. No formal agreement was made in writing, I will admit that but the email I received is implying the photographs belong to the company since they requested them and are using them.

I would say the burden of proof is on them, not you. That is, they have to prove that you are not allowed to use them - not the other way around. They want you to prove that you can use them - I think that they have to prove that you cannot use them.

I don't think they will be able to do that.

I am no attorney though, and if this is important to you, you should talk to one.

 

[Scarlet Siren]

I added a disclaimer to the post that you quoted. I had not seen that you were from the UK until your following post. What I said applies only to the U.S. While I am sure some of it applies in the UK, I do NOT know UK copyright law.

One thing to add though. You say you took them on your lunch break. As in an 'off the clock' lunch break? Here in the U.S., there are some fairly strict laws about hourly employees working 'off the clock'. So much so that Walmart lost millions of dollars for some of their practices of having employees work through lunch or breaks and not getting paid for it.

If the company is taking the role that you provided these as part of your work duties, and you can prove that they were taken when you were 'off the clock', the company may have worked itself into a lawsuit by being stupid.

IF the UK laws are similiar(and I imagine they are more strict since you guys seem to be a lot more liberal when it comes to things like this), I would think either way you win. Either they are your images because you took them off company time, or they are the companies images because they made you work off the clock, which would be a labor dispute rather than a copyright dispute.

If it's not a great job or a career for you and you don't mind walking away, it might not be a bad idea to consult an attorney. It all depends on how far you want to take it and what your priorities are.

Apologies for that, I should have specified the location in my initial post.

I would say the majority of photos where taken on my lunchbreak. The resizing and editing was done whist I was back home during evenings.

Many thanks for your further comments will definitely enquire further in to this just so I can get a better understanding and avoid this in the future. It's a real shame really because I love taking photographs and saw no harm in what I'd done but I see it from their perspective also. It's unlikely I'll ever take photos for them again. And if an opportunity arises elsewhere I'll be sure to consult before I proceed.

 

[Scarlet Siren]

One more thing to maybe consider: Are you still an employee with them and, if so, would you like to continue to be an employee with them?

yes, I'm still an employee and yes I still want to be employed by them. I like my job.... a lot. I see this as an unfortunate situation and I guess I'm kind of upset to have received such an email after what I've done.