Lens Aperture vs Camera ISO - buying advice

[Onz]

I've been researching online for too long and need your help

With the disappointment of the Canon 6D mark ii I'm trying to decide between a very expensive upgrade to the Sony A7Rii with the Sigma 24-105mm F4 lens or an easily affordable minuscule upgrade (currently using a 70D) to the Canon 80D with my existing Sigma 18-35mm F1.8.

My question is, how will the noise level and low light capability compare between these two options? The 80D with f1.8 VS the A7Rii with f4.

To clarify my dilemma, it's more than just a financial problem, I'm finding it hard to believe most high end cameras don't include a fully rotatable touch screen, and the Sony lens options are more limited than Canon - there's no sony mount for the Sigma 24-35 f2! But all things considered would it be worth spending the extra cash?

 

[jaomul]

If you go by numbers there's 2stops difference. Supposedly there's a stop to a stop and a half difference in iso performance. So in theory if you stop the lens down to about f2.2 and shoot this is what f4 should give, using the higher iso on the fullframe to compensate for the smaller aperture.

In real life shooting it probably won't work exactly like that, but close enough. You'll probably get more benefit of shooting and resizing raws also. Resizing from a 42mp instead of a 24 should give some benefit also.

I would not write off the 6d2. If your already in the canon eco system would you be better to save for a 5d4 than go all Sony?

 

[Overread]

What exactly are your problems with the 6D MII

 

[benhasajeep]

Comparing apples to oranges. The A7rii is much more than just better iso. It clearly outsteps he 70D / 80D buy a good deal in all the measurements at DXO (iso, noise, dynamic range, tone, color). Same goes for top end Canon and Nikon bodies in that $3,200 price range.

Now the 80D is slightly better than the D70 in low ISO. Say you can sell the 70D for $600. So, your out of pocket $600 with the new 80D then. Is the slight increase in picture quality at the lower ISO setttings worth it? Yes, there are some other differences in the cameras. But we are taliking output quality. What is the 70D failing at? Is it just an ISO problem your having? Do, you have lights? Maybe some flashes might be a better choice?

 

[chuasam]

rotating touch screen adds a point of weakness.
it's like complaining that an Amoured Personnel Carrier does not have good visibility.
as asked above...what is the 70D failing at?
if you want the A7R II...go for it.

 

[goodguy]

If you want good low light performance you are looking at the wrong place.
Sony A7RII or A7RIII are no low light beasts, high MP cameras tend to be noisier then other FF with lower MP sensors.
APS-C cameras also aint best for low light high ISO.
If you want good results in Canon system I think for now the 5DIV is the best you have (bellow 4K$)
If you willing to jump ship to another system Nikon D750 has amazing low light performance!
With Sony system if you consider Sony I would wait for the new A7III when ever if will come out as it will probably have less MP and thus better low light performance.

 

[Derrel]

Comparing apples to oranges. The A7rii is much more than just better iso. It clearly outsteps he 70D / 80D buy a good deal in all the measurements at DXO (iso, noise, dynamic range, tone, color). Same goes for top end Canon and Nikon bodies in that $3,200 price range.

Now the 80D is slightly better than the D70 in low ISO. Say you can sell the 70D for $600. So, your out of pocket $600 with the new 80D then. Is the slight increase in picture quality at the lower ISO setttings worth it? Yes, there are some other differences in the cameras. But we are taliking output quality. What is the 70D failing at? Is it just an ISO problem your having? Do, you have lights? Maybe some flashes might be a better choice?

rotating touch screen adds a point of weakness.
it's like complaining that an Amoured Personnel Carrier does not have good visibility.
as asked above...what is the 70D failing at?
if you want the A7R II...go for it.

I tend to agree with the above two posters. And...not sure why the 6D-II is disappointing...seems like a good Canon.

 

[chuasam]

Comparing apples to oranges. The A7rii is much more than just better iso. It clearly outsteps he 70D / 80D buy a good deal in all the measurements at DXO (iso, noise, dynamic range, tone, color). Same goes for top end Canon and Nikon bodies in that $3,200 price range.

Now the 80D is slightly better than the D70 in low ISO. Say you can sell the 70D for $600. So, your out of pocket $600 with the new 80D then. Is the slight increase in picture quality at the lower ISO setttings worth it? Yes, there are some other differences in the cameras. But we are taliking output quality. What is the 70D failing at? Is it just an ISO problem your having? Do, you have lights? Maybe some flashes might be a better choice?

rotating touch screen adds a point of weakness.
it's like complaining that an Amoured Personnel Carrier does not have good visibility.
as asked above...what is the 70D failing at?
if you want the A7R II...go for it.

I tend to agree with the above two posters. And...not sure why the 6D-II is disappointing...seems like a good Canon.

It’s the full frame disease. OP feels he needs full frame but can’t bear to spend to get the best.

 

[Derrel]

I get the full-frame and High-ISO allure, especially with the sensors made by Sony. And yes, the A7rii is an expensive camera, but it has the mirrorless features and capabilities so many are attracted to ( multi-lens-brand capability, zebras,in-cam EVF benefits,etc). I dunno--could be the user's age and demographic too: I went to a BIG sales promo event at Pro Photo Supply yesterday, with factory reps from multiple makers, including Sony,Canon,Manfrotto,Nikon,Epson,others. Sony cams appeal to a certain type of shooter. I am actually SEEING A&-series cams on the streets, more and more in the Portland area, often in the hands of 20- to 35 year-old folks.

 

[benhasajeep]

Well younger generation with some disposable income tends to accept new technology quicker. If your well established with certain gear, you tend to stick with that gear.

 

[Overread]

Marketing also comes into play as well, my feeling is that the sony's have pushed heavily to market themselves into a niche to take a serious slice out of the SLR pie; and its worked. Most people don't understand sensor size and how it affects things; plus electronic viewfinders sound more fancy than "big clunky mirrors" and in fairness it does remove mirrorlslap and most people are not doing much more "fast action" than their own kids or family.

 

[astroNikon]

..If your well established with certain gear, you tend to stick with that gear.

This is a large problem. I'm trying to justify going to Fuji or Sony not replacing my D750 but adding to it. But I would need some accesories, and a short (16-50ish) and long lenses (300+) and that stuff ain't cheap. It's much cheaper just to add a D7200

I've been researching online for too long and need your help

With the disappointment of the Canon 6D mark ii I'm trying to decide between a very expensive upgrade to the Sony A7Rii with the Sigma 24-105mm F4 lens or an easily affordable minuscule upgrade (currently using a 70D) to the Canon 80D with my existing Sigma 18-35mm F1.8.

My question is, how will the noise level and low light capability compare between these two options? The 80D with f1.8 VS the A7Rii with f4.

To clarify my dilemma, it's more than just a financial problem, I'm finding it hard to believe most high end cameras don't include a fully rotatable touch screen, and the Sony lens options are more limited than Canon - there's no sony mount for the Sigma 24-35 f2! But all things considered would it be worth spending the extra cash?

Why exactly do you need a fully rotatable screen?

I'm just asking because there are other alternatives.
Depending upon what you need that for you could use:
1 - wireless device shutter release
2 - a 90 degree viewfinder (which swivels) for up top shots.

I do see the definite advantages of a fully rotatable screen though but I've managed to get around it.

 

[benhasajeep]

..If your well established with certain gear, you tend to stick with that gear.

This is a large problem. I'm trying to justify going to Fuji or Sony not replacing my D750 but adding to it. But I would need some accesories, and a short (16-50ish) and long lenses (300+) and that stuff ain't cheap. It's much cheaper just to add a D7200

I've been researching online for too long and need your help

With the disappointment of the Canon 6D mark ii I'm trying to decide between a very expensive upgrade to the Sony A7Rii with the Sigma 24-105mm F4 lens or an easily affordable minuscule upgrade (currently using a 70D) to the Canon 80D with my existing Sigma 18-35mm F1.8.

My question is, how will the noise level and low light capability compare between these two options? The 80D with f1.8 VS the A7Rii with f4.

To clarify my dilemma, it's more than just a financial problem, I'm finding it hard to believe most high end cameras don't include a fully rotatable touch screen, and the Sony lens options are more limited than Canon - there's no sony mount for the Sigma 24-35 f2! But all things considered would it be worth spending the extra cash?

Why exactly do you need a fully rotatable screen?

I'm just asking because there are other alternatives.
Depending upon what you need that for you could use:
1 - wireless device shutter release
2 - a 90 degree viewfinder (which swivels) for up top shots.

I do see the definite advantages of a fully rotatable screen though but I've managed to get around it.

I have always seen the moveable screens as a weak point. I doubt I will ever move the screen on my D850! I am not accident prone or ham fisted. But I have had my moments too. Hate to ruin a $3,300 camera (investment) by inadvertantly break the rear monitor.

 

[astroNikon]

..If your well established with certain gear, you tend to stick with that gear.

Why exactly do you need a fully rotatable screen?

I'm just asking because there are other alternatives.
Depending upon what you need that for you could use:
1 - wireless device shutter release
2 - a 90 degree viewfinder (which swivels) for up top shots.

I do see the definite advantages of a fully rotatable screen though but I've managed to get around it.

I have always seen the moveable screens as a weak point. I doubt I will ever move the screen on my D850! I am not accident prone or ham fisted. But I have had my moments too. Hate to ruin a $3,300 camera (investment) by inadvertantly break the rear monitor.

Yes, it depends upon the requirements.
I identified my back as the weak point. And with a camera attached to a 150lb telescope and it pointed high into the air I found it impossible to look in the camera. A 90 degree viewfinder and the swivel screen on the D750 and D500 was the perfect answer from the D600/D7000 combo I had in the past.

But there are alternatives now for my particular predicament such as wireless, which the D600/D7000 didn't have builtin anyways. Or even tethered if one wants to go that route, etc.[/QUOTE]

 

[Onz]

Thanks for your input everyone!

I'm surprised you guys haven't heard, the 6D mark II reviews are filled with criticism and disappointment. I found this one in particular to provide the perfect comparisons -
Testing the Canon 6D Mark II for Nightscapes

Re: fully articulating screen. This is most certainly not a poorly constructed weak point of the camera, I've used my 70D for 4 years and it has been great (aside from it's noisiness), there is no sign of any wear on the joints, it moves as if it were brand new, and has always felt very strong. It's amazingly versatile for capturing tricky angles and points of view, combined with the touch screen it not only saves you time but also means you won't miss shots because of linking your smart phone etc.

I was all set to buy a second hand A7Rii and was really excited for it, ready to compromise with linking my phone for tricky angles, but then realised it's not even a touchscreen so can't justify the price. The A7Riii has just been released but way outside my budget for now. Anyone had experience with the A7Rii vs touchscreen cameras? Is my prejudice based upon a misconception and the added convenience barely noticeable?

I've decided I'll have to settle for the 6D mark II, pairing it with the Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8. I'll be looking to sell the 6D as soon as an alternative is released - I'll probably wait a year for a second hand A7Riii and buy the MC11 mount converter.

Oh and if you want to check out my images, my instagram is onz_brau I'd also love to check out your accounts ^~^