Mirrorless sales closing the gap on DSLR.

[waday]

Ricoh GR II

Did you see that they announced a GRIII?

 

[Derrel]

I still hardly ever see a mirrorless out in the wild. Most people of course have a phone. Theres still some compacts out there. And DSLRs. And a surprising amount of film cameras.

Sounds like you've got a case of "confirmation bias." I see small entry-level DSLR's around tourists' necks but also Fuji MILCs and other mirrorless many consider "street" cameras like the Fuji X100 cameras or smaller Sonys, Panasonics and Olympus. Just started shooting a near-invisible Ricoh GR II that's often mistaken for a phone. It's the larger prosumer and pro camera shooters weighed down with lens tonnage I rarely see around downtown Toronto now. YMMV, and obviously does.

Yes, confirmation bias...it's pretty strong in many people.

I'm seeing quite a few mirrorless cameras "in the wild". However, the last time I went to a place where there were many,many,many people taking photos was late December of 2016, and I went to Pacific City, Oregon to a very popular beach, on a weekend day, one that had simply _spectacular_ blue sky weather and unseasonably warm weather. The blue sky weather and warm temperatures had been widely predicted by area weather forecasters for several days. The beach was crowded with a huge throng of people, and it seemed that almost all of them were taking photos. I noticed one thing over and above everything else: the VAST majority of people were using their smartphone cameras, more so than any other camera type, perhaps by a margin of 10 to 1. Second, there were quite a few smaller, MILC cameras present. Third: in d-slrs, lower-level Canon and Nikon d-slrs with kit zooms were the most prevalent item being carried, Digital Rebel and Nikon D3200- and 5200-level models seemed to be the majority of the d-slrs. Fourth: I saw a few Sony cameras. Fifth: among the group present there, the iPhone seemed to be hugely represented. Sixth: I did not see any Fuji new-style mirrorless cameras (wrong demographic perhaps?). Seventh: "Big,black camera" shooters were split about 50-50 between Canon and Nikon and were very few, about four of each. Eighth: This was the most photo-intensive place I have been or seen since going to Hawaii...there were more people photographing,both in-total and as a percentage of the people in attendance, than I've seen in years.

I think that we need to realize the overall camera purchase market is made up of many people who are just "regular folks", and are not really photography gear enthusiasts. The overall buying public is mostly made up of people who just want to take photos. And who want to share the photos, often via social media like Facebook, or Instagram, or via Direct Messaging or Personal Messaging (aka DM or PM). From what I saw on that one, hugely photo-intensive day, smart phones were like 10 to 1 among about, I would estimate, 800 t o 1,000 people. Over the course of the day, at other beaches, I saw easily that many more people. Real, camera-only cameras, were definitely a minority.

It's easy to form opinions when you hang out with photography enthusiasts, or to use confirmation bias to reinforce ideas you already hold. It's also very easy to let sales trends and articles dealing with sales blips to confuse you; the best example being people who proclaim that film is "resurgent". No, film is not resurgent, but it is coming back a teeny-tiny bit sales-wise from almost being dead, and the number of film stocks being made has dropped, and continues to drop, yet there are people who are still buying film and shooting pictures on it. It's dangerous to draw conclusions based on small data points, but from what I am seeing since 2016, yes, mirrorless cameras are selling now, more and more. I think what many people like are the small bodies and small lenses, and the pretty affordable prices.

 

[zulu42]

Recently at a small downtown street fair I saw a few people shooting. There were two from a photo class I attended - another student with an XT-2, and the pro who taught the class was carrying a bridge camera. I saw one other Sony mirrorless shooter, and the phone shooters.

I was the only big camera guy. Even with a small lens on, the D800 stuck out like a sore thumb. The crowds were giving me space as if I were pregnant!

 

[cgw]

Ricoh GR II

Did you see that they announced a GRIII?

Yup. But I got a very sweet deal on the GR II and already have Fuji/Nikon 24mp cameras. No clue when the III will ship or what it will cost. The stabilization feature is way more interesting than the larger sensor. The tiny 16mp version is awesome, especially for b&w jpgs.

 

[cgw]

Ricoh GR II

Did you see that they announced a GRIII?

Yup. But I got a very sweet deal on the GR II and already have Fuji/Nikon 24mp cameras. No clue when the III will ship or what it will cost. The stabilization feature is way more interesting than the larger sensor. The tiny 16mp version is awesome, especially for b&w jpgs.

Forgot to add that the Ricoh GR II's RAW files are DNG format--no conversion necessary.

 

[Solarflare]

The GR3 doesnt have a larger sensor than the GR/GR2.

The GR3 is smaller than the GR/GR2.

I think the GR3 is a major step backwards compared to the GR/GR2 because

- Nobody needs image stabilization on a compact with a fixed 28mm thats meant to focus on people photography, for which you want 1/125 sec if possible.
- They killed one of the great features of the GR/GR2, which was the good interface.
- They did not fix the main issue of the GR/GR2, which was poor sealing. Thats the reason all GR/GR2 keep dying and getting sensor spots pretty quickly.

All in all I wished somebody else would make a GR-like camera, since Ricoh clearly cant be bothered anymore. Unfortunately it doesnt look like it.

Fujifilm offers a XF10 which is great except for the lacking flash hotshoe. Thats just a dumb thing to overlook. Yes I know its a leaf shutter and yes I know you can trigger per commander mode. Still commander mode isnt reliable and doesnt sync well above 1/500 sec. Flash cables do.







And about mirrorless, no thats no confirmation bias. Last big event I was: nobody had a mirrorless. The other guy had a DSLR, too, a D7100 with I think a 18-140mm ? And then there was a guy with a Leica M3 and a Voigtländer lens.

 

[waday]

Thats the reason all GR/GR2 keep dying and getting sensor spots pretty quickly.

As someone who has been eyeing the GRii (and potentially the GRiii), I'm very interested in this statement. When you say "dying", in what respect? I'd prefer not to shell out for a camera only to have it die or to have it get sensor spots that can't be cleaned within a very short timeframe.

 

[DGMPhotography]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anyone mention the Nikon Z7?

Seems like a pretty solid camera.

Nikon Z 7 | Interchangeable Lens Mirrorless Camera

 

[cgw]

Thats the reason all GR/GR2 keep dying and getting sensor spots pretty quickly.

As someone who has been eyeing the GRii (and potentially the GRiii), I'm very interested in this statement. When you say "dying", in what respect? I'd prefer not to shell out for a camera only to have it die or to have it get sensor spots that can't be cleaned within a very short timeframe.

GR/GR II sensor dust issues resulted from owners taking the cameras' "pocketability" too literally. Friends with GR dust problems shoved their cameras into dusty/linty pants and coat pockets or courier bags. None died but several did get slightly spotty sensors after a few years of heavy use. When they replaced them with GR IIs, several opted for neck/shoulder straps rather than wrist straps(this is a very small camera)and stored them in Pelican 1020 cases. No dust or premature deaths so far. BTW, the dust "issue" was reportedly a major concern in the GR III update. Solarflare doesn't have clue whether that's been addressed or not since the GR III isn't on the market yet. GR IIs are dropping in price, so look for deals around the holidays.

It's a quirky camera that's not for everyone. It can produce great images, especially b&w where contrast can be controlled very precisely in camera. I'd consider one if you're already "camera-ed up" and like shooting quickly and drawing minimal attention. The lack of a viewfinder gets you mixed up with the ubiquitous smartphone shooters--and mostly ignored as part of that herd.

Look over the GR/GR II reviews, photo pages, and blogs where the opinions are grounded in experience.

 

[Fujidave]

Thats the reason all GR/GR2 keep dying and getting sensor spots pretty quickly.

As someone who has been eyeing the GRii (and potentially the GRiii), I'm very interested in this statement. When you say "dying", in what respect? I'd prefer not to shell out for a camera only to have it die or to have it get sensor spots that can't be cleaned within a very short timeframe.

Before I got the X100F, it was out of three I looked at. 1st the GRii then 2nd XF10 but in the end I went for and got the X100F then a little case that clips to my belt.

 

[waday]

GR/GR II sensor dust issues resulted from owners taking the cameras' "pocketability" too literally. Friends with GR dust problems shoved their cameras into dusty/linty pants and coat pockets or courier bags. None died but several did get slightly spotty sensors after a few years of heavy use. When they replaced them with GR IIs, several opted for neck/shoulder straps rather than wrist straps(this is a very small camera)and stored them in Pelican 1020 cases. No dust or premature deaths so far. BTW, the dust "issue" was reportedly a major concern in the GR III update.

Thanks for the description. Well, I'd personally like to be able to put it in a pocket, but I guess I'd need to avoid doing that. Shame. What makes this a magnet for dust? Is it the way the lens opens/closes when turned on and off, sucking in dust?

It's a quirky camera that's not for everyone. It can produce great images, especially b&w where contrast can be controlled very precisely in camera. I'd consider one if you're already "camera-ed up" and like shooting quickly and drawing minimal attention. The lack of a viewfinder gets you mixed up with the ubiquitous smartphone shooters--and mostly ignored as part of that herd.

I was able to handle one for about 1 minute before the battery died at B&H. I definitely liked that it would be easy to mistake for a smartphone shooter or even a "tourist point-and-shoot".

Before I got the X100F, it was out of three I looked at. 1st the GRii then 2nd XF10 but in the end I went for and got the X100F then a little case that clips to my belt.

I'd love one, but at around twice the price, I'd have to do a lot of explaining and reasoning to get it. Does it have any dust issues, or does it operate differently than the GRII so there are minimal dust issues? It might also draw more attention, which I'm not necessarily a fan of...

 

[Fujidave]

When I was reading up about the GRII & GRIII not once did I see a word said about dust, if it does happen I think it would be because of the camera always going in a dusty pocket.

 

[Fujidave]

@waday I have always rated this site for reviews.


Ricoh GR II Review | Photography Blog

 

[waday]

When I was reading up about the GRII & GRIII not once did I see a word said about dust, if it does happen I think it would be because of the camera always going in a dusty pocket.

Hmm. Ok, so, if I treat it well, make sure it doesn't get too dusty, and blow off dust prior to turning it on/etc, it'd be ok? I really wish I would have been able to have more time to play around with the camera before the battery died. Now, I just need to figure out if I want the GRII or the GRIII, OR, if I want to save for other options...

 

[cgw]

When I was reading up about the GRII & GRIII not once did I see a word said about dust, if it does happen I think it would be because of the camera always going in a dusty pocket.

It does come up but seems part of a mea culpa for rough treatment. Friends who had the problem admitted to abuse. The whole body is magnesium alloy and can take a punch. The GR cameras' weakness is the bellows-like movement of the retractable lens and some lack of sealing that allows fine-grain crud eventually to land on the sensor. There are some brave DIY GR sensor cleaning videos that involve more tear-down than I'd tackle.

I'm keeping mine in a Pelican 1020 case and carry it around my neck or over my shoulder. Will see if this actually works!

The X100 series are wonderful. No dust, either! It's bigger and heavier than the Ricoh and can't qualify as pocketable. Have the X100T and love it. Might be a few Xmas bargains on this 16mp version of the current X100F.