Missed opportunity

[The_Traveler]

I looked at slackercruster's stuff and while I liked some a lot and hated others, I have to respect him and his work, because he is working at it to show what he sees and not just trying to reflect what a mirror catches.

The image completely overwhelms what we might conceive of as technical faults.
Who cares about technical stuff being 'right'?
It's the image that is 'right'.

That's making art, you might not like it, it may not in some absolute terms be any good, but it is creating art.

 

[The_Traveler]

Since this will get emailed to a lot of people, I'm just tagging this on the end.

If you have 20 minutes to read some truly excellent thought about being an artist, being an artisan and looking at your own cr@p shots, read this article and the featured comment s

 

[PixelRabbit]

Interesting read and great food for thought Lew, thanks for posting it.

 

[amolitor]

pgriz says many wise things.

 

[amolitor]

Lew, I read your recent blog post, with your letter to AD Coleman, and I feel like I understand a little better where you're coming from.

A good part of the problem you're having, and which we all have, is that the form we're interested in doesn't exist as "art" any more. Galleries are interested in it only as retrospective pieces, as art history. Photography arrived in a fast-moving era, and most of the forms that it has taken are now in the past, like oil portraits and still lifes. There are plenty of people who paint in oils, there are plenty of people painting attractive arrangements of fruit and teapots in oil, but none of them is being hung in galleries. This is, arguably, for good reason. There is not much left to be said, artistically, by painting apples or by making straight photographs of El Capitan or waterfalls.

The leading voices in the art community aren't going to critique your painting of apples, or your b&w landscapes. There probably are small communities who will, but in both areas you are, essentially, a craftsman laboring away alone or in a small community of similar artisans. There's nothing wrong with this, it does not make you a bad person. It simply means that the thing you are interested in doing is not Artistically (with a capital A) interesting. I suspect that the painters of small oils can probably also find communities of not very good painters who will complain about their brushwork endlessly.

Photography actually enjoys much easier access to critique (albeit much noisier critique) because it is a kind of nerdy thing, and because it's popular for everyday documentary snapshooting.

 

[The_Traveler]

The leading voices in the art community aren't going to critique your painting of apples, or your b&w landscapes.

My complaint is not so much that they are critiquing different things; it's that they are critiquing in mid air, essentially only in reference to what the artist might have achieved - or claims to have achieved.

There is this enormous gap between what the photographers and critics are saying about photography and what photography is actually doing.

I have complained before - and in that note - that I see criticism and explanation and I look at the supposed source, the images, and see really no relationship.
The photographers and the critics are discussing meanings and ideas that really don't seem to exist in any crafted form in the original.

This is like my having a grandiose idea for a sculpture, making a mediocre try at it and then making believe that the sculpture really embodied the idea - in some grand collusion with the critics.

In so many cases, the only well developed concept is the text because the images are just that terrible and terribly done.

I am happy to sit at the feet of real artists but I am totally not interested in being part of some play where artists and critics all make up grand ideas about what their art means - when the actual art itself doesn't exist.

 

[amolitor]

Well, yeah, there's a basic problem with postmodernism, conceptual art, and so on. The thing is diminished, the idea is everything. It's possible to do interesting work in these areas, but a) it's hard b) it's hard to recognize and c) it's not photography (or painting, or sculpture, or whatever, it's just "art")

 

[rexbobcat]

Well, yeah, there's a basic problem with postmodernism, conceptual art, and so on. The thing is diminished, the idea is everything. It's possible to do interesting work in these areas, but a) it's hard b) it's hard to recognize and c) it's not photography (or painting, or sculpture, or whatever, it's just "art")

Postmodernists are the people who made the word "artist" almost derogatory, roll-your-eyes worthy. They're the hipsters in the coffee houses leeching internet to help create their next minimalist, ironic installation.

Like that English artist, can't remember her name. He had a piece f art that was basically a messy bed with bloody sheets and used condoms or something.

I mean, come on. The absence of art is the new art. And it sucks...at least to me.

Sorry; I have a sister who's an artist working generally in ceramics and earthworks. When a piece of art that is basically a dollar bill being blown against a piece of glass by a leaf blower (true story) is given the same amount of recognition as one of her pieces that took 100+ hours to complete, I have to call bull****.

 

[KenC]

There is not much left to be said, artistically, by painting apples or by making straight photographs of El Capitan or waterfalls.

I'm not so sure about this. A famous photo class exercise is to try to copy a famous photograph. The students usually find out that it is incredibly hard to do. There are so many variations in how it is taken (equipment, angle of view, light, etc.) and also in how it is processed. Pretty much everything has been photographed at this point, so if there is nothing left to say, what are we all doing? I like to think we all express something of ourselves, our view of the world, or something in anything we do. Of course there are carelessly taken photos that don't express anything at all, and the debate as to which is which could go on forever. Some critics really have exalted some junk as art and I have to shake my head at some of it, but there is some sort of "art" to be made by all of us, even if no one famous really cares (see below).

The leading voices in the art community aren't going to critique your painting of apples, or your b&w landscapes.

Somehow I think I'll live! Looking for recognition from a bunch of academic or celebrity dilettantes is a fool's errand.

 

[amolitor]

I don't hold with measuring art by the amount of effort it takes to make it, but I basically agree.

That said, I think it IS possible to create interesting art in the conceptual way. There's a guy who does "art" that is basically training groups of people to hold conversations with museum patrons. I don't fully understand how it works, but there are aspects of performance to it (I think the hired people do things are preset times, in a sort of "flash mob" sort of way) and there are aspects of one-on-one conversation, and so on. The idea is to create, for the museum patron, this unique experience. You walk into the museum, someone approaches you, you talk, they might perform a monologue at some point, they will engage with you conversationally but direct the flow, and so on.

On the one hand there isn't anything physical there, where's the art? There is no art. On the other hand, from the patron's point of view, who cares? It's not like I get to take the paintings home with me. I come to the museum to have my mind engaged, to experience new things and ideas, to be forced to consider and thing. Also, to relax and spend some time in contemplation.

This guy's art (which is, by the way, quite complex and difficult to pull together, so the Effort component is there) gives me, the museum patron, all of that stuff. It doesn't give the museum anything physical, but that's not my problem.

Interestingly, it's relatively cheap. Yes, it might cost the museum a couple hundred grand to "buy" the piece and a few hundred grand more to stage it, but that's actually QUITE in line with the costs of hosting a traveling exhibit of work from another museum. So, in the end, it seems to be pretty much a win for everyone.

AND it's totally postmodern crapola!

I haven't experienced it myself, so I cannot vouch that it's actually any good. The idea sounds plausible, though. Even if this guy's work sucks, work like this could surely be made that was excellent.

ETA: Tino Sehgal is the artist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tino_Sehgal

 

[rexbobcat]

I don't hold with measuring art by the amount of effort it takes to make it, but I basically agree.

I wasn't trying to say that time has a positive relationship to quality.

I meant that artists seem I have gotten lazy. "Art is soooo haaaarddd."

And I don't mean just in the effort it takes to put a piece together. I'm talking about creative effort too. Having some vague metaphorical piece isn't creativity in my opinion. It's just laziness, because the artist can just explain it in the artist statement. Where's the intriguing mystery anymore?

All of these pieces that are suppose to be social commentary would be really great if they were actually interesting to look at.

It's like they're openly insulting the art viewers.

Anyways; I have a lot to say on postmodernism. It's the only art movement that I genuinely cannot stand.

Also, the artist I was talking about - her name is Tracey Emin. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracey_Emin

 

[manaheim]

In relation to Lew’s original post, perhaps the gurus here will consider taking the time to detail their thinking process and preparation when creating an image. It is always educational to walk in someone else’s shoes (and that goes beyond photography). How about some of the “out-takes”which didn’t make it to the gallery wall – why did they not succeed? What was the thinking behind why image A was competition-worthy, and image B was not? I raise this suggestion because in our photo club, when we opened up the workshops to discuss the “genesis” of a shot, it really opened up my (and I’m sure many others) eyes at how much prep work goes into creating a really good shot.

Nice post with many good points, but this almost makes me think of members interviewing other members... like a spotlight thing. Like grab invisible or mish or bitter or someone who really produces some interesting stuff, and have everyone submit questions to one person who serves as some sort of panel moderator or something... and then have that person filter through the questions and pose them, then the person can writeup responses, maybe post some images that relate, etc.

I dunno.

Just a random spark in my brain.

 

[pgriz]

In relation to Lew’s original post, perhaps the gurus here will consider taking the time to detail their thinking process and preparation when creating an image. It is always educational to walk in someone else’s shoes (and that goes beyond photography). How about some of the “out-takes”which didn’t make it to the gallery wall – why did they not succeed? What was the thinking behind why image A was competition-worthy, and image B was not? I raise this suggestion because in our photo club, when we opened up the workshops to discuss the “genesis” of a shot, it really opened up my (and I’m sure many others) eyes at how much prep work goes into creating a really good shot.

Nice post with many good points, but this almost makes me think of members interviewing other members... like a spotlight thing. Like grab invisible or mish or bitter or someone who really produces some interesting stuff, and have everyone submit questions to one person who serves as some sort of panel moderator or something... and then have that person filter through the questions and pose them, then the person can writeup responses, maybe post some images that relate, etc.

I dunno.

Just a random spark in my brain.

Hey, sparks are good! (especially considering the alternative. ). Although, I would think that this process may get bogged down in artsy-fartsy posing. On the other hand, it might work. You never know until you try. I think guys like Bitter have enough sharp objects about them to pop any outburst of pretentious balloonery. The point being, of course, that we learn from each other, challenge each other, and create enough ferment to push people into unexpected directions. Yup, I think your idea has merit. And Chris, how long have you been suffering from an outbreak of modesty? You've got some good stuff to share, and if I recall, you did a really good writeup on night photography. Plus, anyone with a D800 has GOT to take great pictures, right?

 

[JAC526]

Well, yeah, there's a basic problem with postmodernism, conceptual art, and so on. The thing is diminished, the idea is everything. It's possible to do interesting work in these areas, but a) it's hard b) it's hard to recognize and c) it's not photography (or painting, or sculpture, or whatever, it's just "art")

Postmodernists are the people who made the word "artist" almost derogatory, roll-your-eyes worthy. They're the hipsters in the coffee houses leeching internet to help create their next minimalist, ironic installation.

Like that English artist, can't remember her name. He had a piece f art that was basically a messy bed with bloody sheets and used condoms or something.

I mean, come on. The absence of art is the new art. And it sucks...at least to me.

Sorry; I have a sister who's an artist working generally in ceramics and earthworks. When a piece of art that is basically a dollar bill being blown against a piece of glass by a leaf blower (true story) is given the same amount of recognition as one of her pieces that took 100+ hours to complete, I have to call bull****.

You clearly just don't get it...geez.

 

[Derrel]

Interesting read and great food for thought Lew, thanks for posting it.

A handful of the commenters did most of the work on the article, and made the most salient and sensible points.

I thought this link in the comments was the most valuable aspect of the commentaries various readers left. Area Woman Finally Uploads All 12 Million Pictures Of Her Vacation To Europe On Facebook | The Onion - America's Finest News Source