Money Loser? What Gives?

[pixmedic]

Yeah, because that hybrid will be paid off in no time with those $45.00 shoots.

I e-mailed the photographer to find out what the Hell she's thinkin'...

I think we are all dying to hear the answer. :mrgreen:

Me, too...

for the record, I definitely do not mean that in an offensive manner... I just dont understand the profit margin in regards to the distance they are offering to travel for such a small amount. especially if their prices are normally $450 for 2 hours, and $200 for one hour.

 

[Steve5D]

I think we are all dying to hear the answer. :mrgreen:

Me, too...

for the record, I definitely do not mean that in an offensive manner... I just dont understand the profit margin in regards to the distance they are offering to travel for such a small amount. especially if their prices are normally $450 for 2 hours, and $200 for one hour.

Oh, I'm with ya'. I know for a fact that her "normal" rates are right around the $150-$200 an hour range. How she figured this would be a good idea is beyond me...

 

[12sndsgood]

Where did I lose you? A lot of those groupon and yahoo deals the people pay up front. So Say the photographer gets 100 people in on the deal. Now allot don't show up or schedule in time or just forget. I've heard close to half don't ever use it. So now you got paid for 100 people at 45 bucks a person. If half dont use it it's the same as having 50 people pay you 90 for the shoot. Now you just hire out the photo job to some beginner for 10 bucks an hour who lives in that town. No mileage Cheap photo cost. Profit.

 

[Steve5D]

Where did I lose you? A lot of those groupon and yahoo deals the people pay up front. So Say the photographer gets 100 people in on the deal. Now allot don't show up or schedule in time or just forget. I've heard close to half don't ever use it. So now you got paid for 100 people at 45 bucks a person. If half dont use it it's the same as having 50 people pay you 90 for the shoot. Now you just hire out the photo job to some beginner for 10 bucks an hour who lives in that town. No mileage Cheap photo cost. Profit.

If I'm running a business, and I decide to put something like this out there, I'm going to be concerned with the worst case scenario. I'm going to want to know how much offering it could end up costing me.

You're operating on the basis a number of assumptions coming to pass. What if half don't forget to use it? What if everyone who buys one uses it? Frankly, I think that's probably more likely than half the people forgetting about it. If I put money into something, I don't forget about it. Why would I assume others would?

Operating on the basis that your clients will "forget" is foolish. It's an unwise gamble that could, most certainly, go south if that's what you're relying on in order to make a profit.

As for the hiring of a ten dollar an hour photographer, I see a couple of issues there. First, the business name is "Pictures By Bill" (not the real name). Well, if someone else shoots that picture, then Bill has no involvement at all. Bill doesn't own the copyright. Bill can't control what happens with that photo. Yet, as far as the client is concerned, if the $10.00 an hour guy does something offensive with that photo, Bill's on the hook because that's who the client hired. Of course, this is assuming that Bill can actually find someone local to get their gear together, drive to where the shoot is, do the hour long shoot, drive home, and e-mail or upload photos for a whopping ten bucks. I don't know about you, but I would think that's a rather lofty expectation.

Do you know of anyone who would actually agree to do that? I certainly don't.

And, all that notwithstanding, would you want to attach your business name to the work created by someone who was willing to work for ten bucks an hour?

I sure wouldn't...

 

[12sndsgood]

well considering I had a local company here offer me to do this same exact thing for a groupon a few months ago I would say that yes, there are companies out there that will hire out people to do the shoots for them. Do I think this is a great business plan? no, not at all. I wouldn't do it for the very things you mentioned but there are companies out there that do that exact thing. As for the copyright, company XXX doing the groupon hires a couple of kids, says this is a great way for you to build your portfolio with us, here sign this litle contract stating blah, blah blah and it's done. The kids are sub-contractors working for company XXX but company XXX retains copyrights.

And I'm not saying this is a great way to run a business, I surely wouldn't put myself in that position myself. But it is the way some people operate. And is one way that people make money off of these things. The other way is by upselling. I did a coupon for window tint from a local family. I new the people so I jumped in. I ended up going with a higher grade of tint so there was an upcharge, and talking to one of the salesman they had several sales that worked into full alarm installs and a couple of audio installs. Are you taking a gamble? sure, but some people are willing to take that risk.

 

[Sw1tchFX]

Who cares? is this the market you're aiming towards? Let them do the $40 portraits, I don't want those clients anyway..

 

[animotionphoto]

The idea of regulating professional photography repulses me. Anyone who would legislate or try to petition to do so repulses me as well. My main bread making business is regulated to the hilt with licenses and mandatory insurances just to keep the lights on. Experience and even statistics have proven that regulation does not control poor quality or competition, but infact diminishes imagination and higher quality. With regulation comes government standards and mandatory insurance requirements that only protect the consumer and paints an easy target on the back of the business owner for frivolous lawsuits.

I got into professional photography because of the fact that THE MAN wasnt looking over my shoulder or had his hands in my pocket. You would think that with everything going on around us now, that regulation would be completely off the ideals for most people, but I guess some people still like the idea of the government wiping their arses until age 26.

 

[pixmedic]

The idea of regulating professional photography repulses me. Anyone who would legislate or try to petition to do so repulses me as well. My main bread making business is regulated to the hilt with licenses and mandatory insurances just to keep the lights on. Experience and even statistics have proven that regulation does not control poor quality or competition, but infact diminishes imagination and higher quality. With regulation comes government standards and mandatory insurance requirements that only protect the consumer and paints an easy target on the back of the business owner for frivolous lawsuits.

I got into professional photography because of the fact that THE MAN wasnt looking over my shoulder or had his hands in my pocket. You would think that with everything going on around us now, that regulation would be completely off the ideals for most people, but I guess some people still like the idea of the government wiping their arses until age 26.

While I agree with not regulating art's like photography, there is a definite NEED, and I will say that again...a definite NEED for government regulation of certain professions. Art is subjective, making it difficult to really pin down as to what is "right or wrong". I think however, that you could not deregulate things like medical fields, engineering, major works projects..I can only imagine if the government told our medical director at work "just do whatever you like, its all good". Or, God forbid...they just let us Paramedics write or own protocols for our narcotics... Hmm...that could be fun. :lmao:

 

[Buckster]

After we put the kibosh on bad photographers who have the audacity to call themselves "professionals", let's go after bad portrait painters, sculpters and then cartoonists. Those people need to be reigned in, especially the ones that are selling their stuff in what amounts to yard sales for yard sale prices and making less money than they put into it in time and effort, by anyone's standard.

 

[Buckster]

Who cares? is this the market you're aiming towards? Let them do the $40 portraits, I don't want those clients anyway..

You forgot to mention film as the answer to this photographic problem.

 

[Buckster]

Considering the the photographer in question doesn't usually do this, according to Steve, we might consider that she has some other idea in mind.

Perhaps this is a marketing idea to exand her business by word of mouth by getting a few new clients to buy and display and fawn over her services to their friends and family. It's easy enough to explain that she was running a special at the time. I recently got a free canvas wrap done by a vendor on this very forum, along with 4 other members, in exchange for our honest opinions about the product and service. The reviews were all good reviews and will no doubt be beneficial to them. The prints are now out in the world on display, looking great, and acting as advertising in their own right - all it takes is for someone to ask, "where'd you get that? That's really nice! I'd like to get something like that of my little Jimmy!"

Perhaps she feels she can sell them more on the back end, if she can just get them in the door, so to speak. "Here's those photos I promised on the CD, oh, and here's the web site where you can buy BEAUTIFUL prints of all sizes in all qualities, even with matting and frames, on cups, mugs, T-shirts, and more. Enjoy!" There's a reason Amazon sells the Kindle for less than the cost to manufacurer it - it's an automatic conduit to the rest of the stuff they want to sell.

That's just off the top of my head, and I'm certainly no marketing genius. Just noting that sometimes the most straightforward path to the money isn't necessarily the best one.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Exactly!

My sister is the worst penny pincher I know. She got a coupon for a free session, and something else. Marked a $250 value. She bought it hook line and sinker, and ended up spending over $350. The photographer charged her $50 for an 8x10! My sister thought she got a great deal! The studio was also an hour drive from her.

The pictures she received, and the book were quite nice, and the photographer was top notch.

I know the difference here is that my sister drove to the studio, but still, coupons work, and can draw people in who think they ate getting something for nothing. A good salesperson can up sell them, and turn a profit, and still make them think thy got a great deal.

 

[Steve5D]

Considering the the photographer in question doesn't usually do this, according to Steve, we might consider that she has some other idea in mind.

Perhaps this is a marketing idea to exand her business by word of mouth by getting a few new clients to buy and display and fawn over her services to their friends and family. It's easy enough to explain that she was running a special at the time. I recently got a free canvas wrap done by a vendor on this very forum, along with 4 other members, in exchange for our honest opinions about the product and service. The reviews were all good reviews and will no doubt be beneficial to them. The prints are now out in the world on display, looking great, and acting as advertising in their own right - all it takes is for someone to ask, "where'd you get that? That's really nice! I'd like to get something like that of my little Jimmy!"

Perhaps she feels she can sell them more on the back end, if she can just get them in the door, so to speak. "Here's those photos I promised on the CD, oh, and here's the web site where you can buy BEAUTIFUL prints of all sizes in all qualities, even with matting and frames, on cups, mugs, T-shirts, and more. Enjoy!" There's a reason Amazon sells the Kindle for less than the cost to manufacurer it - it's an automatic conduit to the rest of the stuff they want to sell.

That's just off the top of my head, and I'm certainly no marketing genius. Just noting that sometimes the most straightforward path to the money isn't necessarily the best one.

Yeah, I'm still waiting to hear back from her.

And I was one of those four other people...

 

[Steve5D]

Who cares? is this the market you're aiming towards? Let them do the $40 portraits, I don't want those clients anyway..

Maybe you just didn't read it right.

In my initial post, I said that this was of no concern to me. Later on, I stated that the photographer in question normally charges far more than $45.00 for a one hour portrait shoot...

 

[GerryDavid]

My business manager said things like Amazon deals or groupon do not work for photographers unless you are a multi million dollar company like The Picture People. We have run the numbers and frankly, anyone who thinks it is a good idea is an idiot.

If done right, these groupons can be extremly profitable, im surprised by how negative these threads tend to be. I wish groupon offered deals in my city, there are two but they are each 3 hours away. Of course many studios dont offer the right deal and have a good chance at loosing money if they dont get any upsells.

If you keep the portraits at your studio *no travel expense or time loss*, keep the sessions short *with the option to buy more time* and keep the stuff the customer gets to something cheap in both time and expenses like a couple prints, then there is lots of room for upselling.

Then you factor in a good % of the people that buy the thing never show up and after a certain amount of time their coupons are no longer valid and you keep the money.

The real winner is groupon, I wish I thought of this setup.