"My Photos Are NOT OK to Edit"

[vintagesnaps]

Isn't that a song, the road to nowhere? or maybe not.

It's up to anyone to decide how they want their photos to be used by others, and I agree it's better to ask if it's OK first. If you want to demonstrate techniques you could post one of your own photos and demonstrate how you edited it. Or don't reply at all.

I'm a teacher too and what Leonore suggests is often similar to what I would do or have done - we probably both learned teaching methods, as well as theories - the 'why' behind what we do. I agree that people probably won't learn something as well if someone else does it for them, but it may help to see something demonstrated. It's up to them if they'd like their photo edited or if they'd rather learn how to do it themselves.

 

[bribrius]

Take my photos. Please!

im the opposite. Not because most of my photos are totally wonderful. But i have way too much time tied up in this. i look at that as the equivalent of working for a week and someone stealing my paycheck. Not to mention when you start offering things for sale, it puts a entire new spin on someone copying it off line for free. im working right now on getting some of my stuff shown and for sale at a place up on a wall in physical print. i am paranoid about what i post on line and limit it. There is some amazing photography on this site from others, and i often wonder how much has been stolen off it. i usually post photos that are photos that im not sure of or in need of help. i surely don't post for others enjoyment or for pats on the back here. Mostly to learn or say "this is what im working on"

Oh, I was in no way faulting you for your preference! I completely understand both side of the issue. If and when I can progress to the point of some of the artists on this forum, I may even join ya! Meanwhile, I'm reduced to Henny Youngman jokes.

oh i wouldn't consider myself a artist. i don't even like the term applied to me. And im not even suggesting im good at this im way to humble to say that anyway. i just need to rationalize time and expense and trying to get work shown is my rationalization.

 

[sashbar]

After a year and a half of green light I have switched to NOT OK simply because I have not had a single edit that was helpful.

 

[The_Traveler]

If someone doesn't allow editing then they won't benefit from anything I have to say. If that doesn't mean much to them, it's OK with me, I just move along.
If getting good c/c is difficult, why put an obstacle in the path of anyone who might offer it?

Many of the posters here hurt their own chances by posting pictures that are so small that there is no basis either to make intelligent comments about the technical issues and certainly not to edit.
When I see someone who posts something that is 800 pixels on the longest side, why bother?
WHen I see pictures posted by someone who clearly doesn't know cr@p about he/she is doing, and yet doesn't allow editing, I know that 80% of what I might say would be useless because they don't know enough to translate words into image changes and I just don't bother.
While they're worrying about someone editing their precious gems, what they should be realizing is that they're missing a chance to actually learn something.

Saying that a good teacher could adapt might be able to adapt might be true but why handicap the teacher?

I won't ask someone for permission because I'm just not that excited about waiting around to get permission to spend my time to help someone.

I had an experience on here about a year ago.
Someone had marked his images not for editing and I wrote a critique and then sent a PM with an edit and asking if I could post it.
His response was that he didn't allow editing - and that meant I shouldn't even have downloaded and edited it.

It may seem hypocritical that I don't allow editing on my own stuff and the real, truly honest truth is that I think I know what I want and I can get the pictures the way I want them and I rarely get comments that I think would be improve the picture.
When I do, I invite the maker to post the edits.

 

[bribrius]

If someone doesn't allow editing then they won't benefit from anything I have to say. If that doesn't mean much to them, it's OK with me, I just move along.
If getting good c/c is difficult, why put an obstacle in the path of anyone who might offer it?

Many of the posters here hurt their own chances by posting pictures that are so small that there is no basis either to make intelligent comments about the technical issues and certainly not to edit.
When I see someone who posts something that is 800 pixels on the longest side, why bother?
WHen I see pictures posted by someone who clearly doesn't know cr@p about he/she is doing, and yet doesn't allow editing, I know that 80% of what I might say would be useless because they don't know enough to translate words into image changes and I just don't bother.
While they're worrying about someone editing their precious gems, what they should be realizing is that they're missing a chance to actually learn something.

Saying that a good teacher could adapt might be able to adapt might be true but why handicap the teacher?

I won't ask someone for permission because I'm just not that excited about waiting around to get permission to spend my time to help someone.

I had an experience on here about a year ago.
Someone had marked his images not for editing and I wrote a critique and then sent a PM with an edit and asking if I could post it.
His response was that he didn't allow editing - and that meant I shouldn't even have downloaded and edited it.

It may seem hypocritical that I don't allow editing on my own stuff and the real, truly honest truth is that I think I know what I want and I can get the pictures the way I want them and I rarely get comments that I think would be improve the picture.
When I do, I invite the maker to post the edits.

that is actually a good point.

 

[sashbar]

The sad truth is most people here either are unable to give a proper thorough critique or simply just do not care.
I always welcome such critique of course, but honestly I have long lost any hope.
And when a Moderator (!) cares only to write "Meh" in response to the photos - god or bad, but I spent time working on it- then my only response to that is:

 

[bribrius]

don't lose hope. i did get a decent critique from sleist the other day.
i try to sometimes, but admittedly im not knowledgable to give really good thorough critiques. And often avoid so as to not lead the person astray.

 

[manaheim]

It's not all about how the teacher prefers to communicate. The teacher must also take into account how the student will receive the information, because if that is ignored, then truly no "communication" has taken place.

I'm not suggesting a teacher shouldn't adapt. But not all do. What I'm suggesting is that the student is the one ASKING for knowledge. When you ask someone for something, you can certainly hope that they will give it to you in a way that works for you, but in the end, you have to take what you can get and be thankful for it. Otherwise, you may well be eliminating the teacher with exactly the knowledge you need.

Just to clarify, I am NOT suggesting that editing photos for someone else isn't useful. It can be very useful for those who process information more visually and might not as easily follow written advice without the visual accompaniment.

Human beings are visual creatures. Period. Yes, others can learn other ways. Yes, some people out there may actually prefer the written word, but it's a scientifically proven fact that- as a race- we process information visually far more rapidly than via the written word.

Take my photos. Please!

im the opposite. Not because most of my photos are totally wonderful. But i have way too much time tied up in this. i look at that as the equivalent of working for a week and someone stealing my paycheck. Not to mention when you start offering things for sale, it puts a entire new spin on someone copying it off line for free. im working right now on getting some of my stuff shown and for sale at a place up on a wall in physical print. i am paranoid about what i post on line and limit it. There is some amazing photography on this site from others, and i often wonder how much has been stolen off it. i usually post photos that are photos that im not sure of or in need of help. i surely don't post for others enjoyment or for pats on the back here. Mostly to learn or say "this is what im working on"

Here is a very good example of the problem. You're paranoid. Why? Do you actually think anyone is going to steal your images?

There are people on this forum with far greater skills than you or I, who not only post their images regularly, but do not even put watermarks on them.

In my experience, there is an inverse relationship between worrying about image theft, and image quality. The same inverse relationship exists for people "worried about someone ruining their image".

And yeah, I'm totally serious. If you're all hopped up and freaked out, odds are pretty good your images aren't all that great.

The sad truth is most people here either are unable to give a proper thorough critique or simply just do not care.
I always welcome such critique of course, but honestly I have long lost any hope.
And when a Moderator (!) cares only to write "Meh" in response to the photos - god or bad, but I spent time working on it- then my only response to that is:

Shocked, I am! (that was me, wasn't it?)

 

[SCraig]

im the opposite. Not because most of my photos are totally wonderful. But i have way too much time tied up in this. i look at that as the equivalent of working for a week and someone stealing my paycheck. Not to mention when you start offering things for sale, it puts a entire new spin on someone copying it off line for free. im working right now on getting some of my stuff shown and for sale at a place up on a wall in physical print. i am paranoid about what i post on line and limit it. There is some amazing photography on this site from others, and i often wonder how much has been stolen off it. i usually post photos that are photos that im not sure of or in need of help. i surely don't post for others enjoyment or for pats on the back here. Mostly to learn or say "this is what im working on"

Here is a very good example of the problem. You're paranoid. Why? Do you actually think anyone is going to steal your images?

There are people on this forum with far greater skills than you or I, who not only post their images regularly, but do not even put watermarks on them.

In my experience, there is an inverse relationship between worrying about image theft, and image quality. The same inverse relationship exists for people "worried about someone ruining their image".

And yeah, I'm totally serious. If you're all hopped up and freaked out, odds are pretty good your images aren't all that great.

In my experience there is a thing called "Fun" that people do sometimes just because they can. They don't expect to be reimbursed for the time or expenses, they do it, well, just for the fun of it. If I had gotten paid for every hour I've invested in photography in the past fifty YEARS I could but a ton of new toys.

As to people stealing images, so what? I put small 800 pixel images on my web site and they are constantly getting downloaded. Personally I think it's funny as hell because if the person had bothered asking for a copy I probably would have given them a high-res copy for nothing. I've given away hundreds of photographs over the past 5 or 6 years and never asked a dime for them. I get my gratification from making someone happy with a photograph for nothing.

 

[The_Traveler]

This series of posts essentially synopsizes everything I can think of that is wrong with the attitudes of people new to photography.

I also find it much more useful when someone is able to tell me exactly what they do or don't like, and that doesn't need a long, involved description.

I can see how description PLUS an example of the edited photo for beginners would be useful, so they can see the result of the advice that was just given, but those who have been doing this awhile should be able to use and understand the jargon, so some simple feedback would be enough to get the point across. Finally, if someone tells me that a picture needs, for example, a contrast boost, I want to be able to achieve the result myself rather than just have someone do it for me.

Much of the time, what is wrong can only be described very vaguely in words. The fact that someone actually can show you what they think is correct, doesn't keep you from figuring out how to do it and learning yourself. I see this as a silly, macho control issue.

Not to mention someone drags your photo into lightroom makes ten adjustments and brings it back and says "isn't that better?"
well, I may not think it is better. I also don't have lightroom, don't know what you did, cant repeat it, and shoot near sooc. so what just occurred didn't really do a damn thing to help me. while it may have given them a ego boost how much help actually went to me is pretty limited. And that is provided they even made adjustments on what was necessary or outwardly incorrect and didn't just adjust the entire thing to fit their personal likes for the sake of it.

Of course, it's what they think is better - and aren't you soliciting that opinion? And you are confusing the mechanical method of making a change with how the changes are actuallly seen. There are ten ways to do everything in LR or PS.
It's like saying you can't cut a piece of wood because you don't have a knife that looks like the one your teacher does.

Actually, if anyone is looking for something to edit with a purpose. i was asked to provide a photo for a non profit organization of a woman very close to me they are writing something about. And all i have is a snapshot of her. which needs a lot of work and the processing is out of my league knowledge and software wise. i think they want it by the end of the month. All i have is a couple snapshots with horrid backgrounds. i don't have her permission to post her photo online, so i haven't posted it. She is a cancer survivor and it is a cancer organization they are writing something about her and its going in some kind of periodical or something. Her main concern is she looks old which i don't know how to fix. which she is elderly. It doesn't have to be a perfect portfolio shot just "decent"

Here you are bemoaning that the processing is out 'of your league' and yet you want to put rules about how people get the privilege of teaching you.

im the opposite. Not because most of my photos are totally wonderful. But i have way too much time tied up in this. i look at that as the equivalent of working for a week and someone stealing my paycheck. Not to mention when you start offering things for sale, it puts a entire new spin on someone copying it off line for free. im working right now on getting some of my stuff shown and for sale at a place up on a wall in physical print. i am paranoid about what i post on line and limit it. There is some amazing photography on this site from others, and i often wonder how much has been stolen off it. i usually post photos that are photos that im not sure of or in need of help. i surely don't post for others enjoyment or for pats on the back here. Mostly to learn or say "this is what im working on"

You're kidding right.
You just started, you admit you don't know anything and yet you expect to start selling pictures to earn a few dollars and you think your work is actually good enough to steal and you want to put limits on how people teach you.
You aren't paranoid, you're a bit delusional.

And it's damn insulting and childlike to think both that you deserve this kind of treatment - and that you'll get it.

 

[bribrius]

It's not all about how the teacher prefers to communicate. The teacher must also take into account how the student will receive the information, because if that is ignored, then truly no "communication" has taken place.

I'm not suggesting a teacher shouldn't adapt. But not all do. What I'm suggesting is that the student is the one ASKING for knowledge. When you ask someone for something, you can certainly hope that they will give it to you in a way that works for you, but in the end, you have to take what you can get and be thankful for it. Otherwise, you may well be eliminating the teacher with exactly the knowledge you need.

Just to clarify, I am NOT suggesting that editing photos for someone else isn't useful. It can be very useful for those who process information more visually and might not as easily follow written advice without the visual accompaniment.

Human beings are visual creatures. Period. Yes, others can learn other ways. Yes, some people out there may actually prefer the written word, but it's a scientifically proven fact that- as a race- we process information visually far more rapidly than via the written word.

im the opposite. Not because most of my photos are totally wonderful. But i have way too much time tied up in this. i look at that as the equivalent of working for a week and someone stealing my paycheck. Not to mention when you start offering things for sale, it puts a entire new spin on someone copying it off line for free. im working right now on getting some of my stuff shown and for sale at a place up on a wall in physical print. i am paranoid about what i post on line and limit it. There is some amazing photography on this site from others, and i often wonder how much has been stolen off it. i usually post photos that are photos that im not sure of or in need of help. i surely don't post for others enjoyment or for pats on the back here. Mostly to learn or say "this is what im working on"

Here is a very good example of the problem. You're paranoid. Why? Do you actually think anyone is going to steal your images?

There are people on this forum with far greater skills than you or I, who not only post their images regularly, but do not even put watermarks on them.

In my experience, there is an inverse relationship between worrying about image theft, and image quality. The same inverse relationship exists for people "worried about someone ruining their image".

And yeah, I'm totally serious. If you're all hopped up and freaked out, odds are pretty good your images aren't all that great.

The sad truth is most people here either are unable to give a proper thorough critique or simply just do not care.
I always welcome such critique of course, but honestly I have long lost any hope.
And when a Moderator (!) cares only to write "Meh" in response to the photos - god or bad, but I spent time working on it- then my only response to that is:

Shocked, I am! (that was me, wasn't it?)

Apparently you didn't read post #47. Im more likely to say i don't know enough or my work isn't good. course if others say they like or don't like it, i don't usually care to much about that either . As far as what people do with their work, or chose for edits or what to post. It is their work and their choice. This isn't "group think photography". I thought long and hard about how to respond to the rest of this. And after those two seconds were over...........

 

[The_Traveler]

Who gives a damn about your time and expense? That's your issue.
I care about time that I spend - and I'll spend it the way that I think is best.

Being hamstrung by not being allowed to edit because a neophyte photographer wants to protect some phantom commercial potential in the future is a waste of time and, worst of all, is encouraging fallacious thinking.

I can show someone in a single picture edit what would be poorly explained in text in much more time and many exchanges.

 

[bribrius]

This series of posts essentially synopsizes everything I can think of that is wrong with the attitudes of people new to photography.

I also find it much more useful when someone is able to tell me exactly what they do or don't like, and that doesn't need a long, involved description.

I can see how description PLUS an example of the edited photo for beginners would be useful, so they can see the result of the advice that was just given, but those who have been doing this awhile should be able to use and understand the jargon, so some simple feedback would be enough to get the point across. Finally, if someone tells me that a picture needs, for example, a contrast boost, I want to be able to achieve the result myself rather than just have someone do it for me.

Much of the time, what is wrong can only be described very vaguely in words. The fact that someone actually can show you what they think is correct, doesn't keep you from figuring out how to do it and learning yourself. I see this as a silly, macho control issue.

Not to mention someone drags your photo into lightroom makes ten adjustments and brings it back and says "isn't that better?"
well, I may not think it is better. I also don't have lightroom, don't know what you did, cant repeat it, and shoot near sooc. so what just occurred didn't really do a damn thing to help me. while it may have given them a ego boost how much help actually went to me is pretty limited. And that is provided they even made adjustments on what was necessary or outwardly incorrect and didn't just adjust the entire thing to fit their personal likes for the sake of it.

Of course, it's what they think is better - and aren't you soliciting that opinion? And you are confusing the mechanical method of making a change with how the changes are actuallly seen. There are ten ways to do everything in LR or PS.
It's like saying you can't cut a piece of wood because you don't have a knife that looks like the one your teacher does.

Actually, if anyone is looking for something to edit with a purpose. i was asked to provide a photo for a non profit organization of a woman very close to me they are writing something about. And all i have is a snapshot of her. which needs a lot of work and the processing is out of my league knowledge and software wise. i think they want it by the end of the month. All i have is a couple snapshots with horrid backgrounds. i don't have her permission to post her photo online, so i haven't posted it. She is a cancer survivor and it is a cancer organization they are writing something about her and its going in some kind of periodical or something. Her main concern is she looks old which i don't know how to fix. which she is elderly. It doesn't have to be a perfect portfolio shot just "decent"

Here you are bemoaning that the processing is out 'of your league' and yet you want to put rules about how people get the privilege of teaching you.

im the opposite. Not because most of my photos are totally wonderful. But i have way too much time tied up in this. i look at that as the equivalent of working for a week and someone stealing my paycheck. Not to mention when you start offering things for sale, it puts a entire new spin on someone copying it off line for free. im working right now on getting some of my stuff shown and for sale at a place up on a wall in physical print. i am paranoid about what i post on line and limit it. There is some amazing photography on this site from others, and i often wonder how much has been stolen off it. i usually post photos that are photos that im not sure of or in need of help. i surely don't post for others enjoyment or for pats on the back here. Mostly to learn or say "this is what im working on"

You're kidding right.
You just started, you admit you don't know anything and yet you expect to start selling pictures to earn a few dollars and you think your work is actually good enough to steal and you want to put limits on how people teach you.
You aren't paranoid, you're a bit delusional.

And it's damn insulting and childlike to think both that you deserve this kind of treatment - and that you'll get it.

sigh. if you don't want to give cc then don't, i wont lose sleep over it.

 

[table1349]

One of the other issues I often see with people asking for a critique of their work, they either don't know what they were trying to accomplish or capture or don't bother to express what they were trying to do or what they find good or bad and/or what it is they are wanting others to critique.

Just putting up an image and saying what do you think or give me come C&C is pretty useless without some background to work with from the photographer. Lew may love a photo, manaheim may hate the same photo and I may be lukewarm or we may have any combination of the above, all for different reasons because we all have our own opinions, likes and dislikes. To me critiquing a photo is as much about the photographer and what they were wanting to accomplish as anything else. There is no right or wrong to an image, only those things we like and don't like. Some are pretty universal and some not so much. If a photographer wants to get they must be willing to give as well.

 

[Designer]

Yup, that's kind of a sore point with me as well.