New here. Strange photograph on silk

[uslakeside]

Hello, new here. I'm not sure if this is the right section, since many postings here regard cameras and not old photos. I am not a collector but happened upon this really odd and old photograph on silk. I can't find anything about it and now the collector bug is setting in. Can anyone out there shed any light onto this photo? Or where to turn online? Its certainly very old and appears mill woven. Thanks for any feedback.

 

[dxqcanada]

Stevengraph Collectors Association - Stevengraphs - What are they?

 

[amolitor]

It appears to be a photograph of the San Francisco Ferry Building. The image itself is pre-1959 for sure, since that's when the Embarcadero Freeway went up, and probably quite a bit earlier. The light fixtures would probably date it more closely.

The napkin or whatever it is could have been made at any time, though. It is the nature of photographs. This looks like some souvenir napkin or doily, and could be quite modern. I suspect that it is much more modern than the photograph itself, since I am unaware of any fashion for printing on cloth objects in the first half of the 20th century. It was certainly feasible then, but I don't think it was considered an interesting thing to do.

This could certainly have been a one-off project by some artist as well, of course.

 

[timor]

It's interesting stuff, the history behind.

 

[BrianV]

It's beautiful. Film emulsion starts out as a liquid "concoction" and can be applied to many surfaces. After that, can be used to print an image.

You might want to look up "Polaroid Transfer", Fuji still makes film that can be used for this. Basically, use a Polaroid camera to take a picture and then transfer the image onto other surfaces rather than the print paper that is normally used.

 

[amolitor]

Finally put my finger on it. Is pre-1933 or thereabouts as well, since there's no sign of the Bay Bridge in the background, either. The pedestrian bridge seems also to be missing which places this photograph pre 1930, as I have found imagery from 1930 which contains it. I cannot find when the pedestrian bridge went in, alas.

Pedestrian bridge went in in 1919, so this is some time between 1898 and 1919.

It should be possible to refine this to before or after 1906, but I'm going to quit now.

 

[timor]

So what do you say, it is a contact print from a LF negative on sensitised fabric ? Or is this napkin made by other means of printing ?

 

[uslakeside]

Thanks for all this so far! After some googling I am wondering if its possibly a souvenir?

 

[IanG]

There are formulae for sensitising fabrics that are quite diferent to film or paper emulsions, these were quite widely published over the years.

Ian

 

[unpopular]

yes. it must be a different formula than what we think of as photographic paper, otherwise the thick emulsion would set on the silk, rather than be part of it. It would be ridged. I have an idea what process this is, but atm the name escapes me. It was widely used in medium-production scale of full tone images from about 1850-1950, before offset reproduction was affordable, peaking in the 1910's. It was typically used in books, though a novelty doily would also be suitable. I'll look around for details.

I don't think it's that modern unless someone was trying to sell it as a genuine antique, if that were the case it'd be more likely offset or ink jet. But how many post-boomers would be into buying a doily? This is something that would appeal to WWII-era tourists, and was likely sold pre-vietnam - and my guess, pre-korea.

There are a few clues to suggest the age of the photograph. The telegraph lines and lack of electric street lights. If the road there is The Embarcadero and not the ferry building's exterior concorse, there are also no street car tracks visible. San Francisco's street car history is complicated, and I am not sure what the route historic street car lines took and when.

This looks around 1900-1920, if I were to guess - going solely from technology alone.