New to Forum and Request for help if you have a couple of minutes

[ANB]

Hello Photographers!

My name is Andrew Barnhorst and I am new to this forum. I’m 36 years old and was practically born with a camera in my hand. I still remember my first camera that used 120 film. When I made it to high school (and one intermediate class in college) I signed up for as many classes as I could. There I learned the basic workings of the camera as a complex tool and then subsequently spent a lot of time in the darkroom. I can’t say that I feel that I ever came close to mastering either discipline, but I do feel that I had better control and produced better images on film.

Seven years ago my Wife bought me my first digital camera. It’s great to be able to take a shot and instantly see the results. It’s also nice not to worry about the rarity and expense of working with film. However, I feel like I no longer produce images as good as I would like to. I feel like I don’t have a handle on my newest camera (Nikon 7100). I also feel like I am drowning in a collection of digital images. They sure do add up quickly! This is how I found this forum. I was looking for reviews of Lightroom 6 prior to purchasing the program. I thought it might help me manage my images, but after the reviews I am not so sure. Regardless of what brought me to this forum, I am glad that it did because this sounds like a very nice community of artists.

If you’re still with me, great and thank you!

I also wanted to bring up the fact that I am a disabled American veteran that was injured in the line of duty. This is important because I have been working with the Veterans Administration (VA) for a couple of years to retrain into a job field that does not aggravate my injuries. My previous job was working as a Fireman for the U.S. Air Force, Minnesota Air Force Reserves and Colorado Air National Guard. I have also volunteered for local structural departments as both a Fireman and Assistant Fire Chief. So, naturally I wanted to continue to serve my community in some capacity and I chose to retrain into Nursing. I attended school for a couple of years, made it to the testing stage to enter nursing school and missed the program by one seat! I was bummed, but tried again and again and still didn’t make it. So, now I am trying to retrain into photography.

The problem and the reason that I bring all of this up is that the VA has told me that photography is not an accepted, “vocational goal” in their eyes. I understand where they are coming from, but I strongly disagree and I am requesting your help. I need to show them that there are photography jobs out there. In fact, several weeks ago I found a vacancy announcement posted by the VA looking for a photographer/designer!

Where can I find job announcements for Photographers? I am not to that level, yet, but I need to provide proof that a vocational goal of Photographer is a profession that is both easier on my injuries and a means of financial support. I would like to attend Rocky Mountain College of Art and Design (RMCAD) and any input regarding this school would be great, too!

Thank you for listening and thanks in advance for your help,

I am excited to have found this forum,


Andrew Barnhorst

 

[tirediron]

In as much as I hate to say this, they're probably right. Making a living wage as a photographer these days is very, very, VERY difficult. Between the huge number of "I just got my camera at BestBuy and started my business today" overnight pros, the glut of images as a result of cell phones and cheap digital P&S cameras, and the general decline in the standards of professional work demanded by the public, you'd be much, much, MUCH better off in another field. Have you considered a related field such as web or graphic design? I understand your passion, but that will be a VERY hard row to hoe!

 

[terri]

Welcome to TPF, Andrew! I don't have an answer for your exact question, though I would offer that you might start by contacting your local photography club or art district. They might be able to point you in the right direction.

Aside from that, thank you for your service! I hope you stick around, post some more and enjoy the forum!

 

[Designer]

I would like to attend Rocky Mountain College of Art and Design (RMCAD) and any input regarding this school would be great, too!

Go through their complete degree offerings and find something that you might enjoy almost as much as photography, then, when enrolled, take as many art and photography classes as you can. When you find an occupation in the art and design field, you may find that your photography skills will be a nice adjunct to your job, and may open up some additional doors.

 

[Gary A.]

Welcome to the forum Andrew. For retraining purposes ... I think it would be hard to find a school which has a degree in photography or a photographic certification program. That is probably what the VA is looking for. You know the VA, they have rules and if you fall outside those rules ... well too bad for you. You need to know precisely why the VA is dismissing your application for photography ... armed with that knowledge you can move ahead with less frustrations, road bumps and wrong turns. Most colleges have programs in Art or Communications which have an emphasis in photography, but not a degree in photography. Most "Retraining" education is focused in community colleges, adult schools and private specialized schools, not your traditional four year college.

 

[ANB]

In as much as I hate to say this, they're probably right. Making a living wage as a photographer these days is very, very, VERY difficult. Between the huge number of "I just got my camera at BestBuy and started my business today" overnight pros, the glut of images as a result of cell phones and cheap digital P&S cameras, and the general decline in the standards of professional work demanded by the public, you'd be much, much, MUCH better off in another field. Have you considered a related field such as web or graphic design? I understand your passion, but that will be a VERY hard row to hoe!

John, It seems that you and I have similar interests. Your photographs are very nice and your website is easy to use. I especially appreciate the Veteran's Portrait Project! I also feel that there are too many self proclaimed, "pros" out there, but I think that the work of real professionals will always be in demand. I'm guessing that the professional photographer needs to work harder at marketing these days? I have considered graphic design, but my interest still lies behind the camera more than indoors and in front of the computer. My passion and mission is to record wildlife in an effort to help conservation. I also enjoy photographing people working in their professions and communicating their stories.
Thanks for the advice, I look forward to following your Veterans project.

 

[ANB]

Welcome to TPF, Andrew! I don't have an answer for your exact question, though I would offer that you might start by contacting your local photography club or art district. They might be able to point you in the right direction.

Aside from that, thank you for your service! I hope you stick around, post some more and enjoy the forum!

Terri,

It's interesting that you recommend this because I did this just the other day. We have lived in the Palmer Lake, CO area for 8 years, and only once before peeked into our local art center (Tri-Lakes Center for the Arts). Well, the other day we spent time viewing some of the exhibits, and talking to the locals. They brought to my attention the local photography club and the annual contest that ended that evening! So, for the first time ever I entered the contest with 45 minutes to spare. I can't wait to be involved with them too!

Thanks for the advice and welcoming. It was always an honor to serve.

Andrew

 

[ANB]

Welcome to TPF, Andrew! I don't have an answer for your exact question, though I would offer that you might start by contacting your local photography club or art district. They might be able to point you in the right direction.

Aside from that, thank you for your service! I hope you stick around, post some more and enjoy the forum!

Terri,

It's interesting that you recommend this because I did this just the other day. We have lived in the Palmer Lake, CO area for 8 years, and only once before peeked into our local art center (Tri-Lakes Center for the Arts). Well, the other day we spent time viewing some of the exhibits, and talking to the locals. They brought to my attention the local photography club and the annual contest that ended that evening! So, for the first time ever I entered the contest with 45 minutes to spare. I can't wait to be involved with them too!

Thanks for the advice and welcoming. It was always an honor to serve.

Andrew

Terri,

I quickly glanced at your website and enjoy looking at your work. It's nice to see someone working entirely with film and manipulating its possibilities. On that site you said, "But art is meant to be viewed, and shared; otherwise it has little meaning beyond what it has taught the artist." This particularly speaks to me because I have never shared my images outside of my family. It's probably fairly obvious, but I'm starting to think that I should.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[ANB]

I would like to attend Rocky Mountain College of Art and Design (RMCAD) and any input regarding this school would be great, too!

Go through their complete degree offerings and find something that you might enjoy almost as much as photography, then, when enrolled, take as many art and photography classes as you can. When you find an occupation in the art and design field, you may find that your photography skills will be a nice adjunct to your job, and may open up some additional doors.

Designer,

I agree, but in the past I have spent nearly 8 years in higher education. I enjoy the learning atmosphere and even more enjoy practicing it hands on. However, I am at the point where I am wanting to focus my practice solely on mastering the camera and organization of images, so that I can make the images at a moments notice. I want to finally work at the one thing that I love without doubt or looking back. I'm tired of hearing that it's not a real profession. If I have a style, I think it is to produce images true to reality. I strive to record the details of an actual scene without altering it too much, if at all. My main interest is wildlife.

Thanks for the advice,

Andrew

 

[ANB]

Welcome to the forum Andrew. For retraining purposes ... I think it would be hard to find a school which has a degree in photography or a photographic certification program. That is probably what the VA is looking for. You know the VA, they have rules and if you fall outside those rules ... well too bad for you. You need to know precisely why the VA is dismissing your application for photography ... armed with that knowledge you can move ahead with less frustrations, road bumps and wrong turns. Most colleges have programs in Art or Communications which have an emphasis in photography, but not a degree in photography. Most "Retraining" education is focused in community colleges, adult schools and private specialized schools, not your traditional four year college.

Gary,

I know what you mean, and believe me, I have always spent my time training for something that would provide a certificate of some kind. Fireman, Law Enforcement Officer, EMT, Chef, Medicine, Sawyer, etc... and have worked in those fields, but I always fall back to wanting to spend my time these days working as a Photographer. And I have this awesome opportunity, that arose from a huge misfortune, to retrain into a life changing career field. I am fortunate enough to be near two large art schools. Rocky Mountain College of Art and Design, and The Art Institute of Colorado. Both are insanely expensive or I would simply enroll and dismiss the VA.

You're right, I probably have not probed the VA enough to find out exactly why they automatically dismiss nearly all higher education involving Art. I should not assume.

I like your B&Ws. Are you the subject in the, "Panorama Fire?"

Thank you,

Andrew

 

[tirediron]

In as much as I hate to say this, they're probably right. Making a living wage as a photographer these days is very, very, VERY difficult. Between the huge number of "I just got my camera at BestBuy and started my business today" overnight pros, the glut of images as a result of cell phones and cheap digital P&S cameras, and the general decline in the standards of professional work demanded by the public, you'd be much, much, MUCH better off in another field. Have you considered a related field such as web or graphic design? I understand your passion, but that will be a VERY hard row to hoe!

John, It seems that you and I have similar interests. Your photographs are very nice and your website is easy to use. I especially appreciate the Veteran's Portrait Project! I also feel that there are too many self proclaimed, "pros" out there, but I think that the work of real professionals will always be in demand. I'm guessing that the professional photographer needs to work harder at marketing these days? I have considered graphic design, but my interest still lies behind the camera more than indoors and in front of the computer. My passion and mission is to record wildlife in an effort to help conservation. I also enjoy photographing people working in their professions and communicating their stories.
Thanks for the advice, I look forward to following your Veterans project.

Thanks! I completely understand your passion and I sincerely wish you all the luck in your pursuit (you do like Ramen noodles & SPAM, don't you?).

 

[ANB]

In as much as I hate to say this, they're probably right. Making a living wage as a photographer these days is very, very, VERY difficult. Between the huge number of "I just got my camera at BestBuy and started my business today" overnight pros, the glut of images as a result of cell phones and cheap digital P&S cameras, and the general decline in the standards of professional work demanded by the public, you'd be much, much, MUCH better off in another field. Have you considered a related field such as web or graphic design? I understand your passion, but that will be a VERY hard row to hoe!

John, It seems that you and I have similar interests. Your photographs are very nice and your website is easy to use. I especially appreciate the Veteran's Portrait Project! I also feel that there are too many self proclaimed, "pros" out there, but I think that the work of real professionals will always be in demand. I'm guessing that the professional photographer needs to work harder at marketing these days? I have considered graphic design, but my interest still lies behind the camera more than indoors and in front of the computer. My passion and mission is to record wildlife in an effort to help conservation. I also enjoy photographing people working in their professions and communicating their stories.
Thanks for the advice, I look forward to following your Veterans project.

Thanks! I completely understand your passion and I sincerely wish you all the luck in your pursuit (you do like Ramen noodles & SPAM, don't you?).

In as much as I hate to say this, they're probably right. Making a living wage as a photographer these days is very, very, VERY difficult. Between the huge number of "I just got my camera at BestBuy and started my business today" overnight pros, the glut of images as a result of cell phones and cheap digital P&S cameras, and the general decline in the standards of professional work demanded by the public, you'd be much, much, MUCH better off in another field. Have you considered a related field such as web or graphic design? I understand your passion, but that will be a VERY hard row to hoe!

John, It seems that you and I have similar interests. Your photographs are very nice and your website is easy to use. I especially appreciate the Veteran's Portrait Project! I also feel that there are too many self proclaimed, "pros" out there, but I think that the work of real professionals will always be in demand. I'm guessing that the professional photographer needs to work harder at marketing these days? I have considered graphic design, but my interest still lies behind the camera more than indoors and in front of the computer. My passion and mission is to record wildlife in an effort to help conservation. I also enjoy photographing people working in their professions and communicating their stories.
Thanks for the advice, I look forward to following your Veterans project.

Thanks! I completely understand your passion and I sincerely wish you all the luck in your pursuit (you do like Ramen noodles & SPAM, don't you?).

Not sure I've always had a decent paying job or venture since I was 12 y/o, but I've worked hard for it, and working hard for photography does not phase me the slightest. Thanks again for you time and advice. It's much appreciated. Have a great day, Andrew

 

[dennybeall]

There are jobs and then there is making a living. There are a lot of photography jobs that won't make you a good living. You can take school photos or baby pictures at the hospital and not make much. You can do weddings but the competition is fierce for good ones and the market is getting eaten up by the newbies with their new digital cameras, some of whom have top of the line professional quality equipment.
Being self-employed is where you have a chance at making a good living and the VA doesn't support that at all.
As has been said on this forum and others any number of times "Get a good job and do photography on the side!!"

 

[ANB]

Denny,

Self employment is definitely my ultimate goal even with an employer that supplies regular work. I currently have a great Federal job with all the benefits, but with the disadvantages too. You know, I think that the VA does support self employment (I could be wrong on that), but I am not looking for that at this time. I'm really trying to find decent paying photography jobs. I've found one for National Parks and believe it or not the VA. So there are weddings, hospitals, portraiture, but what about news agencies and... I can't think of other potential employers. I'm guessing that even a news photographer is a freelancer?

Andrew

 

[vintagesnaps]

Thanks for your service, and welcome.

Many major newspapers/media outlets have laid off/fired all their photographers - even SI did I think and went freelance. The Chicago Sun Times gave their reporters cell phones... that apparently didn't last long since they brought back and contracted freelance many of their former full time staff photographers. But of course that doesn't give them a salary, benefits, etc.

I think it could turn around someday because there seem to be problems already contracting freelance with people with cameras. But it will depend I think on newspapers even staying in business and if/when media outlets might decide it was better hiring staff to maintain their journalistic ethics and quality standards. But I wouldn't hold your breath, I wouldn't expect if things would change it would be anytime soon. Anyway for that you'd need a degree in PR/media relations or journalism more than art.

I always took a lot of art in school but I don't know what someone might do with an art degree unless they wanted to teach art or at college level. I'm not familiar with the one art school you mentioned but the Art Institutes are everywhere, there's one in my area (I recognized the logo). At best you'd get some classes in some field of art but the reputation is nothing special; just discovered the one here got put 'On Notice' meaning they're in danger of losing their accreditation. Those type schools are usually accredited for distance learning, or as a career/tech school (formerly vocational schools) which can be a way for someone to get some training for a particular type job but it doesn't issue a college degree. I've seen some called 'bachelors' degrees but they aren't a 4 year university degree.

I would think it might be worth checking into anything in your area that might be holding a job fair, or a seminar on changing careers or re-entering the workforce, etc. Saw a lot of those being held the past few years. You probably need to find out what would be some viable options. I don't think there ever were a lot of existing jobs as photographers but now it's really slim pickin's. (And 'everybody' saw that National Parks job that went viral, if it's the same one.)

I'd take a look at American Society of Media Photographers or PPA for resources, ASMP does webinars (free, don't have to be a member, just sign up and they email the link - I've done some, last an hour). They often deal with the challenges photographers have in trying to stay in business. Or maybe the Photo District News Photo Magazine | Professional Photography Industry News and Resources , they have some job listings and list agencies, etc. Might help figuring out what might be a viable option but I don't think there's much in the way of existing jobs.