Not again, this time a police raid was involved

Garbz · Jul 16, 2008

Bifurcator said:
Jerking off in your basement is an offense? I had no idea! Glad I never do such a thing!

--
Anyone recommend any good lawyers or know where I might find very thick curtains?

What you need curtains for in the basement...

:lmao: sorry.

Battou · Jul 16, 2008

Bifurcator said:
Anyone recommend any good lawyers or know where I might find very thick curtains?

I'm told some good curtans can be bought in Alaska :mrgreen:

Bifurcator · Jul 16, 2008

Garbz said:
What you need curtains for in the basement...

:lmao: sorry.

I like to wrap myself u.... Uhh, better not go there that might be an offense too.

Yemme · Jul 16, 2008

Is it culture, law or both???

I dont agree with the images at all even in the artistic form. Its our culture and the law. Im surprised a parent would allow their child to pose for those images. In other regions of our world the culture and their laws permit. National Geographic I believe dont take into consideration the age of a bare breasted young girl. That is their culture Their law, I have no clue!

Roger · Jul 17, 2008

I saw this post still alive and thought I'd add some information about a recent issue in Oz. The original issue re Bill Henson has died down with nothing eventuating in terms of legal consequences, this was predictable as the whole purpose of the hue and cry was to fuel personal and political agendas. The latest furore is about an 11 y/o girl who was photographed when she was 8 y/o and is on the cover of Art Monthly. The usual suspects have come out with the same venom and hysteria, flogging their agendas again. This time a judge has determined the images legal and not pornographic at all....end round two and a win for the art world! I expect this battle to continue over the coming years, as to who will win is anybody's guess.....I suspect the conservatives will win for a generation or two as they have a need to supress and there is much fear about the planet. The art and literature world has always suffered these turns, but emerge again in time, when there is less fear in the hearts and minds of people.

Bifurcator · Jul 17, 2008

They (the evil ones) will probably win in the end. At least in the USA it's very common to use provocateurs or staged infractions of the worst kind in order to secure public opinion.

So look for it to continue and get worse with a few staged highly publicized ones where the child actually gets injured or something. Then the legislation and revomal of rights comes. That's the USA anyway. I guess Oz is no diff. <shrug>

@Yemme,

I can't believe you're from NY. You must not be from the city as I've seen lots and LOTS of photos of kids in NYC running naked in an open fire spigot during the summer. It's as about as culturalistic as the USA gets (being only a few hundred years old).

Yemme · Jul 17, 2008

Bifurcator said:
@Yemme,

I can't believe you're from NY. You must not be from the city as I've seen lots and LOTS of photos of kids in NYC running naked in an open fire spigot during the summer. It's as about as culturalistic as the USA gets (being only a few hundred years old).

Oh you better believe it honey....I'm a New Yorker for life. Now my question is which fire hydrant did you ever see a nude child running in the water? Forget a photo... In person! Cause if you saw someone taking images in NY you'll get your head bashed in. Naked is Naked... I'm not talking skimpy clothes. I mean naked! You might have seen toddlers running under the sprinkles with undies but never NUDE! You won't see a willing person who's a teenager naked running through a hydrant. We do wear less in the summer but we’re not nude. If you did see an image that person was paid or they didn’t know... Also they would be fleeing the scene before someone with enough sense calls the cops. That’s why there are nude models willing to get arrested for their art. But no child is nude in the streets unless the parent allowed it.

anderspj · Jul 26, 2008

Posted by Passerby: That is why justice is about the just laws.

This is not an insignificant error in your thinking. Just laws are meant to be about justice, and we as (just) human beings are meant to be the creators of just laws. As our understanding of justice shifts, so should our laws (and, historically, they do.) It is not the other way around. When you look at justice as stemming from legislation, you become slavish and unthinking, and generally become a tool who does what he's told to do because he's told to do it, trusting in the powers that be and their grandiose 'traditions'. A community of slavish and fearful citizens is utterly impotent with regards to their ability to govern themselves without hurting themselves. This is one reason why political corruption can be seen as practically insurmountable. Those who look to legislation to decide what is just will nearly always become the slaves of whatever political agenda is behind the law.

And as far as you saying that love does not exist in the west, that's just not true, and only a dumb person would say it is. I'd put an emoticon here, or say lol, but I genuinely don't want to gloss my unpleasant impression of you or your thinking.

Bifurcator · Jul 28, 2008

Ouch!

Could it be that Passerby touched a nerve?

I dunno what he said about "love" cuz it's on page one and I'm lazy. But I take it he insinuated that there's less love in western cultures than in others? The equivalent word for "love" in this context is "care". And there sure is allot less care in the west. If you care about your neighbors and community members you would at least know their names and what they're into right? You'd want to know what their needs were so you could help out - because you cared. I bet "westerners" don't know the names of the people in the houses 3 to the right, 3 to the left, the 3 across the street, and the three in back of them nor do they honestly care at all about their needs, health, and etc. There are exceptions but mostly the idea of community care and participation in western cultures today begins and ends with taking out the trash and mowing the front lawn.

I'm an oldster and I've lived in a few different countries. The first thing I usually notice by contrast in those other cultures is that everybody knows everybody and knows everybody's business. Not because they're medaling busy-bodies that the community breaking propaganda of western GOVERNMENTS would have you believe but because they (love) care about others.

This hasn't been the case in the USA at least, since the 30's 40's and 50's when communist elements within the federal government and certain "foundations" actively sought disunity and the disbandment of communities in general and community organizations in specific all across the country. It seems to me westerners all have this Disney ideal about care but it remains pretty much exclusive to their imaginations. So now so many of you are easily convinced that there are terrorists among you (LOL!!!!) and that some guy with a camera practicing art is in reality a mad pedophile with an evil Mr. Hyde twin self. What is it you westerners say "Get a life!"? That seem practically to apply here IMHO.

As far as communities making their own laws based on a transient and ever changing sense of morality and/or justice what a total idealistic, unreality based, hypothetical, crock of steaming goobers! If you live in the west you are OWNED by your government! You're even on the books IN WRITING as being corporate chattel property! You're only told these days that you have liberty and freedom. Elections are held these days only for public pacification and to keep you all busy thinking you have a choice and can be part of a team with an agenda different from "the other side". This is downright laughable! And many people 50% to 80% (??) buy the delusion - most of them for no other reason than that it's easier to do so than to have to clean out the closets. You live in a documented and declared police state under a dictatorship and have for 30 or 40 years. Bush even went so far as putting a bill through declaring him "The Dictator" and giving him dictatorial powers over all three branches of government. But the masses are so brainwashed that when men like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucenich put life, limb, and liberty at risk to tell you these things most Americans call them kooks, hide their heads in the sand, and sling some more idealistic, unreality based, hypothetical, steaming goobers rather than face facts and rather than facing that their government is actually run by evil nazi families left over from WWII (or who that actually started it in the 1st place). You think you have a say? HA! You think the media is anything but a propaganda machine to cull and control the public? You're delusional - let me ask you how many hours has Dennis's 47 articles of impeachment (just against Nazi Bush alone) been aired on national TV this week? The biggest story in the nation and it's a virtual media black-out. LOL Oh, yeah, you keep believing that you have a say in the laws than bind you! If you actually did it might just be discovered that the Federal Income Tax is not only illegal and unconstitutional but that the Supreme Court has ruled so on 4 separate occasions. But you'll keep paying it as that's the funding for the military industrial complex, they have the guns, and you live in a dictatorship!

Love... we make our own laws... bah! Naiveté Supreme!

anderspj · Jul 29, 2008

Bifurcator said:
Ouch!

Could it be that Passerby touched a nerve?

I dunno what he said about "love" cuz it's on page one and I'm lazy. But I take it he insinuated that there's less love in western cultures than in others? The equivalent word for "love" in this context is "care". And there sure is allot less care in the west. If you care about your neighbors and community members you would at least know their names and what they're into right? You'd want to know what their needs were so you could help out - because you cared. I bet "westerners" don't know the names of the people in the houses 3 to the right, 3 to the left, the 3 across the street, and the three in back of them nor do they honestly care at all about their needs, health, and etc. There are exceptions but mostly the idea of community care and participation in western cultures today begins and ends with taking out the trash and mowing the front lawn.

I'm an oldster and I've lived in a few different countries. The first thing I usually notice by contrast in those other cultures is that everybody knows everybody and knows everybody's business. Not because they're medaling busy-bodies that the community breaking propaganda of western GOVERNMENTS would have you believe but because they (love) care about others.

This hasn't been the case in the USA at least, since the 30's 40's and 50's when communist elements within the federal government and certain "foundations" actively sought disunity and the disbandment of communities in general and community organizations in specific all across the country. It seems to me westerners all have this Disney ideal about care but it remains pretty much exclusive to their imaginations. So now so many of you are easily convinced that there are terrorists among you (LOL!!!!) and that some guy with a camera practicing art is in reality a mad pedophile with an evil Mr. Hyde twin self. What is it you westerners say "Get a life!"? That seem practically to apply here IMHO.

As far as communities making their own laws based on a transient and ever changing sense of morality and/or justice what a total idealistic, unreality based, hypothetical, crock of steaming goobers! If you live in the west you are OWNED by your government! You're even on the books IN WRITING as being corporate chattel property! You're only told these days that you have liberty and freedom. Elections are held these days only for public pacification and to keep you all busy thinking you have a choice and can be part of a team with an agenda different from "the other side". This is downright laughable! And many people 50% to 80% (??) buy the delusion - most of them for no other reason than that it's easier to do so than to have to clean out the closets. You live in a documented and declared police state under a dictatorship and have for 30 or 40 years. Bush even went so far as putting a bill through declaring him "The Dictator" and giving him dictatorial powers over all three branches of government. But the masses are so brainwashed that when men like Ron Paul and Dennis Kucenich put life, limb, and liberty at risk to tell you these things most Americans call them kooks, hide their heads in the sand, and sling some more idealistic, unreality based, hypothetical, steaming goobers rather than face facts and rather than facing that their government is actually run by evil nazi families left over from WWII (or who that actually started it in the 1st place). You think you have a say? HA! You think the media is anything but a propaganda machine to cull and control the public? You're delusional - let me ask you how many hours has Dennis's 47 articles of impeachment (just against Nazi Bush alone) been aired on national TV this week? The biggest story in the nation and it's a virtual media black-out. LOL Oh, yeah, you keep believing that you have a say in the laws than bind you! If you actually did it might just be discovered that the Federal Income Tax is not only illegal and unconstitutional but that the Supreme Court has ruled so on 4 separate occasions. But you'll keep paying it as that's the funding for the military industrial complex, they have the guns, and you live in a dictatorship!

Love... we make our own laws... bah! Naiveté Supreme!

God, what a bigoted piece of drivel.

First, you confine your commentary on the 'west' to the United States alone when there are many other nations to which the term applies.

Secondly, leaving it at the United States, you apply your remarks so broadly as to indict a population of 300 million comprised of more varied and diverse communities than exist in any other single nation. Well, maybe Russia and China also. Or India. Maybe others, too.

Thirdly, while it is a given that within the United States only media whores from the two dominant parties will ever win an election, did you pay attention at all to how much money Ron Paul was able to make? And as far as the articles of impeachment go, the fact that they will die in committee is unfortunate. The damage that has been done is immense and irreparable, and we are in agreement. People don't seem to care. But... need I remind you that both Paul and Kucinich are elected legislators, voted for and supported by their constituents? The fact that neither was nominated for president nor succeeded in impeaching anybody does not make them low-profile schmoes with no audience or support. Both of them have reasonably significant audiences, and the Paul campaign has the cash to prove it.

Fourthly, did I ever, anywhere in my post, explicitly or implicitly, make any gesture of support for the ridiculous nanny state mentality you repeatedly referenced in yours?

Fifthly, you seem to be missing my point. My point was that relying upon legislation and legislators to tell you what is right and wrong, and what is just, will make you a slave. Again, buying the crap will make you a slave. It seems you've interpreted my remarks as somehow supportive of the delusion that government can and will help you, or that people ought to look to their governments as a beacon of anything besides the constant failings of man (and woman). Let me clarify this for you in my own defense. I do not believe government has the best interests of either me or my loved ones (yes, those people for and about whom I care) at heart. I do not believe it is government that makes people free. I do not choose to be fashionable and blame all of the world's woes on a single man or a single family. President Bush has been a bad president, and is, I believe, a bad man. However, the world has seen worse and, sadly, there are very likely worse to come. Finally, I do not live in the west. I reside in the east as a visible minority and am all too aware of the fact that westerners do not have a monopoly on selfishness, lovelessness, uncaring exclusivity, xenophobia, or moral bankruptcy. Neither is the place I live without community, regard for others, selflessness, or genuine friendship. These are human vices and virtues and are found everywhere.

Before this thread gets locked, I'll get back on point. 1 There is indeed love (and care) in the west. Pardon me for saying so. 2. Concepts of morality and justice shift over time. Pardon me for saying so. 3. How did these photos ever create such a frenzy in the first place?

Arch · Jul 29, 2008

Well this is the reason we do not allow POLITICS to be discussed on the forum. Im sure people here are WELL AWARE of our RULES, and the rules state to avoid POLITICAL discussion!!