Not sure if I charge to low

[pixmedic]

Several years ago, I took a course about how to start up in wedding photography...and many of the lessons apply to all sorts of photography.

The number one lesson was that experience should not play a factor in your price. I'll say that again... experience should not play a factor in your price.
If you are good, then you should be charging as much as you can (read up on the law of diminishing returns).

As for how much you should charge...that depends on your business model. How much do you need to charge to cover you expenses and earn a profit? Can you support your family, earn a living, pay your bills, cover your equipment, advertise, pay taxes, insurance and put food on the table with what you charge?

As for the photographer who E-mailed you...he has a point that you are probably undercutting his price and probably running your business at a loss (once you figure in the things mentioned above)...and yes, that does hurt the industry as a whole.
On the other hand, good photographers should constantly be striving to improve and should find a market segment that is willing to pay for how good they are. Most 'successful' photographers aren't threatened by $40/hr photographers because they want (market to) people who are willing to may much more.

^^I agree with most of this...BUT...saying the OP is probably undercutting the expensive photographer is like saying Kia is undercutting Mercedes. Their target audiences shouldn't overlap at all. But I love you mentioning experience not playing a factor. experience does not necessarily equal quality, It just means you've been doing it longer, not better.

No.. the target audiences should not overlap.. at all! BUT.. when A sees a "Pro Photographer" charging B this much... A is going to wonder WHY this other "Pro Photographer" is charging them so much more. Some people really don't the difference between a bad photo and a good one. This can impact a pro... when he is charging more than others... even if he is worth it.

again, it goes back to buyer beware, and more importantly, clients doing their research, just like buying anything else. if you buy a Kia, but EXPECT a Mercedes, and you go crying about it...what kind of sympathy are really going to get? I don't hear anyone complaining about how Kia or Saturn need to raise their prices because Mercedes and BMW are losing business.

 

[Big Mike]

[just to play the devil's advocate] :twisted:

again, it goes back to buyer beware, and more importantly, clients doing their research, just like buying anything else. if you buy a Kia, but EXPECT a Mercedes, and you go crying about it...what kind of sympathy are really going to get? I don't hear anyone complaining about how Kia or Saturn need to raise their prices because Mercedes and BMW are losing business.

But at the same time, there aren't any companies (that I know of) who are selling new cars for say, $3000...and only doing that because they can afford to run a money loosing business. If there was such a company, Kia and Saturn would surely be up in arms because it would be cutting into their bottom line, and they couldn't afford to match the lower prices without losing money.

The only thing they could do, is wait for the (fictional) cheap car company to go out of business...because they won't be able to sustain themselves by charging only $3000 for a new car.

But when it comes to photography, some people only do it part time (or their family has other income) so they essentially can afford to run their business at a loss for an indefinate period of time...which can (and does) affect the market as a whole.

 

[sapper6fd]

I absolutly LOVE how your reply to his email spun the situation into a positive by asking him to take you under his wing. Thats a very ballsy move but in a very good way. Fantastic and well done! I seriously hope it works out for you and you end up geetting some sort of paid work with him.

 

[pixmedic]

[just to play the devil's advocate] :twisted:

again, it goes back to buyer beware, and more importantly, clients doing their research, just like buying anything else. if you buy a Kia, but EXPECT a Mercedes, and you go crying about it...what kind of sympathy are really going to get? I don't hear anyone complaining about how Kia or Saturn need to raise their prices because Mercedes and BMW are losing business.

But at the same time, there aren't any companies (that I know of) who are selling new cars for say, $3000...and only doing that because they can afford to run a money loosing business. If there was such a company, Kia and Saturn would surely be up in arms because it would be cutting into their bottom line, and they couldn't afford to match the lower prices without losing money.

The only thing they could do, is wait for the (fictional) cheap car company to go out of business...because they won't be able to sustain themselves by charging only $3000 for a new car.

But when it comes to photography, some people only do it part time (or their family has other income) so they essentially can afford to run their business at a loss for an indefinate period of time...which can (and does) affect the market as a whole.

your assuming that doing cheap(er) photography part time is at a loss. I still dont quite understand how a cheap(er) craigslist photographer has any effect on a 34 year experienced $4000 wedding photographer. what do you tell people that go to you and don't have enough money to afford your rates? what do any of the pros do?
when someone says they really need their wedding photographed, but they ONLY have $800 and that's ALL their family and friends could scrape together? Do you do the wedding for $800? or do you send them on their way to find a photographer in their price range? If the "Pro" isnt willing to provide a service in the price range where some people are looking, then their business model is unaffected by those photographers willing to do it at that price, since their clients could not afford the expensive prices anyway. Unless there is some business aspect I have missed.

 

[RaySky]

My clients are all big family's who have kids that can't afford senior pics, weddings for couples like me and my fiance who live in a tiny efficiency. I love my clients they are very family oriented so they treat you like part of the family. I don't want money I would to be doing this for free because it is a passion but since lenses aren't free I have to save up.

The email send has yet to reply back to me. Oh well

 

[RyanLilly]

Funny Saturn was given as a comparison, and fitting. General Motors closed Saturn along with several other brands because, they were operating their business at a HUGE loss, year after year.

 

[pixmedic]

Funny Saturn was given as a comparison, and fitting. General Motors closed Saturn along with several other brands because, they were operating their business at a HUGE loss, year after year.

true. but Mercedes and BMW never complained that Saturn was taking business from them. Saturn operated at a loss, and eventually took themselves out of the picture. they were never a threat because they did not produce a product competitive with the mercedes or bmw buyer market. Pro photographers should look at it the same way, and whine about it less.

 

[pixmedic]

Funny Saturn was given as a comparison, and fitting. General Motors closed Saturn along with several other brands because, they were operating their business at a HUGE loss, year after year.

BTW, i was totally agreeing with you :thumbup:

 

[RyanLilly]

Funny Saturn was given as a comparison, and fitting. General Motors closed Saturn along with several other brands because, they were operating their business at a HUGE loss, year after year.

true. but Mercedes and BMW never complained that Saturn was taking business from them. Saturn operated at a loss, and eventually took themselves out of the picture. they were never a threat because they did not produce a product competitive with the mercedes or bmw buyer market. Pro photographers should look at it the same way, and whine about it less.

I agree. In fact operating in a higher price range often gets you better clients, who have realistic expectations, an have confidence if your skills. It is often the opposite in the lower end, and this is in no way directed at the OP, it just my observations in many businesses, that low price clients are used to working with under qualified people and can be a real pain in the @$$. Even if you give them the world, they often are still unsatisfied.

Also People who seek out higher priced photographers are used to paying a premium of something better, even if the difference is subtle. Especially with wedding may people want the best for their special day.
Examples: $20 a bottle Dewars, vs $100 single malt
Fantastic Sams vs a real salon
Mens warehouse vs designer suits
The basic products are the same, and for a lot of people, including myself, the former is usually just fine(except the scotch, I'm more of a $70 single malt guy) But Many people are happy to pay a premium for something just a bit(or a whole lot) better. Photographers who fall into the latter category are not affected by the extremely low priced offerings. The cheap guys, like many GM lines put themselves out of business before even stepping on to the same playing field as the "professionals."

Now I can see where where the mid range photographers can get limped together with the weekend warriors, and in that case, It time to step up your game to separate yourself from the pack. Markets change, so business models must also change, or just be left behind to complain about it on the internet.

 

[pixmedic]

Funny Saturn was given as a comparison, and fitting. General Motors closed Saturn along with several other brands because, they were operating their business at a HUGE loss, year after year.

true. but Mercedes and BMW never complained that Saturn was taking business from them. Saturn operated at a loss, and eventually took themselves out of the picture. they were never a threat because they did not produce a product competitive with the mercedes or bmw buyer market. Pro photographers should look at it the same way, and whine about it less.

I agree. In fact operating in a higher price range often gets you better clients, who have realistic expectations, an have confidence if your skills. It is often the opposite in the lower end, and this is in no way directed at the OP, it just my observations in many businesses, that low price clients are used to working with under qualified people and can be a real pain in the @$$. Even if you give them the world, they often are still unsatisfied.

Also People who seek out higher priced photographers are used to paying a premium of something better, even if the difference is subtle. Especially with wedding may people want the best for their special day.
Examples: $20 a bottle Dewars, vs $100 single malt
Fantastic Sams vs a real salon
Mens warehouse vs designer suits
The basic products are the same, and for a lot of people, including myself, the former is usually just fine(except the scotch, I'm more of a $70 single malt guy) But Many people are happy to pay a premium for something just a bit(or a whole lot) better. Photographers who fall into the latter category are not affected by the extremely low priced offerings. The cheap guys, like many GM lines put themselves out of business before even stepping on to the same playing field as the "professionals."

Now I can see where where the mid range photographers can get limped together with the weekend warriors, and in that case, It time to step up your game to separate yourself from the pack. Markets change, so business models must also change, or just be left behind to complain about it on the internet.

im a single malt scotch guy myself.
21 yr balvenie
18 yr glenfidditch
18 yr glendarach

though, sometimes I like a good Gin and Tonic..bombay sapphire or tangueray 10

 

[12sndsgood]

Funny Saturn was given as a comparison, and fitting. General Motors closed Saturn along with several other brands because, they were operating their business at a HUGE loss, year after year.

true. but Mercedes and BMW never complained that Saturn was taking business from them. Saturn operated at a loss, and eventually took themselves out of the picture. they were never a threat because they did not produce a product competitive with the mercedes or bmw buyer market. Pro photographers should look at it the same way, and whine about it less.

I agree. In fact operating in a higher price range often gets you better clients, who have realistic expectations, an have confidence if your skills. It is often the opposite in the lower end, and this is in no way directed at the OP, it just my observations in many businesses, that low price clients are used to working with under qualified people and can be a real pain in the @$$. Even if you give them the world, they often are still unsatisfied.

Also People who seek out higher priced photographers are used to paying a premium of something better, even if the difference is subtle. Especially with wedding may people want the best for their special day.
Examples: $20 a bottle Dewars, vs $100 single malt
Fantastic Sams vs a real salon
Mens warehouse vs designer suits
The basic products are the same, and for a lot of people, including myself, the former is usually just fine(except the scotch, I'm more of a $70 single malt guy) But Many people are happy to pay a premium for something just a bit(or a whole lot) better. Photographers who fall into the latter category are not affected by the extremely low priced offerings. The cheap guys, like many GM lines put themselves out of business before even stepping on to the same playing field as the "professionals."

Now I can see where where the mid range photographers can get limped together with the weekend warriors, and in that case, It time to step up your game to separate yourself from the pack. Markets change, so business models must also change, or just be left behind to complain about it on the internet.

So does this mean that photographers as a whole should only photograph those that have plenty of money? and if thats the case now all your craigslist photographers are now priced at the same rate as the company with 30 years of experience, that is bound to take some customers away if in fact the general public is clueless about quality of photography.

It's business, companies start and close all the time. it's about survival. and sending someone an email and whining about how much they charge to me is just pathetic.

 

[skiboarder72]

true. but Mercedes and BMW never complained that Saturn was taking business from them. Saturn operated at a loss, and eventually took themselves out of the picture. they were never a threat because they did not produce a product competitive with the mercedes or bmw buyer market. Pro photographers should look at it the same way, and whine about it less.

I agree. In fact operating in a higher price range often gets you better clients, who have realistic expectations, an have confidence if your skills. It is often the opposite in the lower end, and this is in no way directed at the OP, it just my observations in many businesses, that low price clients are used to working with under qualified people and can be a real pain in the @$$. Even if you give them the world, they often are still unsatisfied.

Also People who seek out higher priced photographers are used to paying a premium of something better, even if the difference is subtle. Especially with wedding may people want the best for their special day.
Examples: $20 a bottle Dewars, vs $100 single malt
Fantastic Sams vs a real salon
Mens warehouse vs designer suits
The basic products are the same, and for a lot of people, including myself, the former is usually just fine(except the scotch, I'm more of a $70 single malt guy) But Many people are happy to pay a premium for something just a bit(or a whole lot) better. Photographers who fall into the latter category are not affected by the extremely low priced offerings. The cheap guys, like many GM lines put themselves out of business before even stepping on to the same playing field as the "professionals."

Now I can see where where the mid range photographers can get limped together with the weekend warriors, and in that case, It time to step up your game to separate yourself from the pack. Markets change, so business models must also change, or just be left behind to complain about it on the internet.

So does this mean that photographers as a whole should only photograph those that have plenty of money? and if thats the case now all your craigslist photographers are now priced at the same rate as the company with 30 years of experience, that is bound to take some customers away if in fact the general public is clueless about quality of photography.

It's business, companies start and close all the time. it's about survival. and sending someone an email and whining about how much they charge to me is just pathetic.

I completely agree. This is two different ends of the spectrum. People open up new photography studios every day, and if they can offer a better product at a better price then sure they will overtake some of these older studios that haven't really advanced their work.

Back to the original question though. You really have to ask yourself what you want to make, what your time is worth, and what type of client is ideal for you. If you want to be on the lower scale of things that's great! I personally would rather make the same amount and have more free time. My goal this past year was to make the same amount off 20 weddings that I did last year off 25. Improve the quality, decrease the hours worked, and still take home the same amount.

 

[pixmedic]

I agree. In fact operating in a higher price range often gets you better clients, who have realistic expectations, an have confidence if your skills. It is often the opposite in the lower end, and this is in no way directed at the OP, it just my observations in many businesses, that low price clients are used to working with under qualified people and can be a real pain in the @$$. Even if you give them the world, they often are still unsatisfied.

Also People who seek out higher priced photographers are used to paying a premium of something better, even if the difference is subtle. Especially with wedding may people want the best for their special day.
Examples: $20 a bottle Dewars, vs $100 single malt
Fantastic Sams vs a real salon
Mens warehouse vs designer suits
The basic products are the same, and for a lot of people, including myself, the former is usually just fine(except the scotch, I'm more of a $70 single malt guy) But Many people are happy to pay a premium for something just a bit(or a whole lot) better. Photographers who fall into the latter category are not affected by the extremely low priced offerings. The cheap guys, like many GM lines put themselves out of business before even stepping on to the same playing field as the "professionals."

Now I can see where where the mid range photographers can get limped together with the weekend warriors, and in that case, It time to step up your game to separate yourself from the pack. Markets change, so business models must also change, or just be left behind to complain about it on the internet.

So does this mean that photographers as a whole should only photograph those that have plenty of money? and if thats the case now all your craigslist photographers are now priced at the same rate as the company with 30 years of experience, that is bound to take some customers away if in fact the general public is clueless about quality of photography.

It's business, companies start and close all the time. it's about survival. and sending someone an email and whining about how much they charge to me is just pathetic.

I completely agree. This is two different ends of the spectrum. People open up new photography studios every day, and if they can offer a better product at a better price then sure they will overtake some of these older studios that haven't really advanced their work.

Back to the original question though. You really have to ask yourself what you want to make, what your time is worth, and what type of client is ideal for you. If you want to be on the lower scale of things that's great! I personally would rather make the same amount and have more free time. My goal this past year was to make the same amount off 20 weddings that I did last year off 25. Improve the quality, decrease the hours worked, and still take home the same amount.

that sure would be awesome. the difference is though, that YOU are working on ways to improve your business model, product quality, and efficiency, while SOME photographers are trolling people on craigslist complaining about not making enough money. Im sure we can ALL see which is the better way to go. :mrgreen:

 

[12sndsgood]

I'm wondering because I havn't done any reasearch on the matter, but how long that quick snap shops in like wallmart have been pumping out family photos, wondering if that had the same impact on photographers as the new crop of craigslist photographers are. wether the same mentality and uproar happened.

 

[skiboarder72]

I'm wondering because I havn't done any reasearch on the matter, but how long that quick snap shops in like wallmart have been pumping out family photos, wondering if that had the same impact on photographers as the new crop of craigslist photographers are. wether the same mentality and uproar happened.

I don't think so, because this type of stuff isn't even in the same league. Seriously would you be cross shopping walmart and a very successful/talented on-location portrait photographer?