ok so.....

JimmyJaceyMom · Dec 17, 2007

I have a question. You know those machine's at department/grocery stores that make copies and enlargments of photographs? I know there is a disclaimer when you start an order that states copyright laws and all that and you have to agree in order to continue.
SO, if a person would use one of those to print a professional's photos without permission who's at fault? The kiosk company? probably not since they have a disclaimer... the grocery store or wherever holds the machine - their managers are all trained in how to use this machine and are told about the copyright law. Or the customer who 'agrees and understands' the copyright disclaimer full welling knowing they are full of sh!t?
Anyone know?

JIP · Dec 17, 2007

It really depends on the lawyers that fight the particular case at the time if there is one. The disclaimer is I would assume the wink and a nod way for the big boxes to try to abdicate there responsibility in protecting copywrights but I am sure they would rather have the sale. I know at Ritz they were very strong on respecting the copywrights of photographers. They woud say the would prefer to loose the sale than make an unauthorised copy.

jstuedle · Dec 17, 2007

In simple terms, the consumer who declares they understand and agree to the terms.

JimmyJaceyMom · Dec 17, 2007

Ok thanks guys. I usually try to find out everything in google myself. I'm certainly not suing anyone but i was just curious who gets in troubel if this happens.
Here's what happened to me -
I did a session for a woman whose family i have known for years. They own a grocery store. The client ordered the pics she wanted and then her parents ordered the ones they wanted.
My mother works in the store. Today she was there and she busted the aunt of the child from the session (part owner of the store) and the manager of the store making 5by7 copies in the kiosk machine at the store. They were my pictures. I didnt give any permission to print them or copy them.
The part that irritates me is that those machines make the crappiest copies - i do not want someone handing those out and saying I took them - the quality is such crap and it implies that this is what I sell! That sucks!
And the real kicker - the fmaily is very nice, nice to work for and all that but their number one thing they despise is someone stealing from their store, its unforgiveable to them as it shoudl be! Meanwhile they stole from me, basically. You cant tell me that she didnt know she was supposed to pay ME for those prints, not freaking Fuji Kiosk center!
ugh - some people!

jstuedle · Dec 17, 2007

On your order form, do you have the "standard" fine print? You know, the stuff stating all about copyrighted material and associated laws. The one where they sign under it to acknowledge they understand? A little line telling them an illegal copy is stealing sounds appropriate.

JimmyJaceyMom · Dec 17, 2007

jstuedle said:
On your order form, do you have the "standard" fine print? You know, the stuff stating all about copyrighted material and associated laws. The one where they sign under it to acknowledge they understand? A little line telling them an illegal copy is stealing sounds appropriate.

well, I didn't but I will. Wtih this particular instance that wouldn't have mattered though because here's the thing. I never order my prints from walmart unless they are proofs, for my family that wants them quick or in the case of a customer needing the prints quick, like for Christmas or what have you.
I told the mother or the subject - "I will have to pick these up for you- Walmart will not give them to you because I hold the copyright and I don't have a release form so that you can make copies or pick them up yourself.
She completely understood that and was fine with it - even ordered more directly from me two days later.
The one that did this was the woman's sister in law. Apparently the mom gave her sister in law a 4by6 that she had bought from me and she took it apon herself to make the 5by7's from it in the machine at their store.
'I know peopel do this all the time - fine, but how bad does it suck that its someone I know! I KNOW she knows she was supposed to order from me.

Anyhow - whole point is, my mom wants to warn the owner (her boss) that this is being done (she isnt telling him they were mine) and to make sure that HE can't get into any trouble himself over his employess illegally using his kiosk machine. Buy I told her - I'm not sure it's on him, that its probably on the person that accepts the rules but disregards them.

Thanks though - I WILL put that on the order form form now on or maybe even explain it in better detail. I'm not money hungry or something but it just really sucks that she would do that - heck, my 5by7's are only 2 for 5 bucks!

JimmyJaceyMom · Dec 19, 2007

Just an update - my mom called from the store where she works where all this happened and she said that the copies have been returned to her and an apology was given. The woman who made the copies says she didnt know it wasn't ok.
So here's why I'm not the most business minded person - I feel bad that she was embarassed by it and I almost want to go make real prints (those copies were awful) and give them to her.

MxerMerin · Dec 19, 2007

I put a sticker on the back of allmy prints. It has my name, contact info, and a short message about "not to be reprinted." I print it on those clear labels you get at staples or any stationary store. I think a stamp would be better, but I am only trying to stop the ignorant, not the theif. That way, if they are given to someone who I have not talked to, they know that they are not supposed to make copies. Most people are honest unless they think thye can claim ignorance, or down right get away with it. The best quote I ever read was "Don't judge a man by what he would do if he might get caught. Judge him by what he would do if he wouldn't get caught." sorry no idea who said it first.

JimmyJaceyMom · Dec 20, 2007

MxerMerin said:
I put a sticker on the back of allmy prints. It has my name, contact info, and a short message about "not to be reprinted." I print it on those clear labels you get at staples or any stationary store. I think a stamp would be better, but I am only trying to stop the ignorant, not the theif. That way, if they are given to someone who I have not talked to, they know that they are not supposed to make copies. Most people are honest unless they think thye can claim ignorance, or down right get away with it. The best quote I ever read was "Don't judge a man by what he would do if he might get caught. Judge him by what he would do if he wouldn't get caught." sorry no idea who said it first.

Oh that's a good idea. You know I ended up just giving her the prints she wanted because i didn't mean to embarass her and she is the aunt of a mom who wants to get the child's pictures done again in the spring - so she could be someone I have to deal with a lot I hope and i didn't want to have any hard.awkward feelings.
Good quote, something ot htink about.

craig · Dec 24, 2007

Like you suggested; getting mad at the client and then giving them free prints is the wrong approach. Your business needs to be a profit deal.

Love & Bass