One More RAW Topic

[GwagDesigns]

Ive read the discussions on RAW vs JPEG, and i know RAW is the way to go, ive begun to use it but ive one question. Since we can now edit JPEGs in camera RAW with CS3, im assuming RAW is just a better raw image file. i mean RAW is the file that you mess with and then convert to JPEG, while messing with a JPEG in raw is just using the setting in raw on the already jpeg file right? I shot in raw for the features camera raw allowed, but i might start shooting in jpeg again since i can get the same features now.

Input? sorry if i sound a bit confusing, im a bit tired

 

[Jon, The Elder]

Yup, you are getting a bit confused.

When you shoot in .Jpg, the camera processes the data according to the parameters you have set in the menus.

When you shoot in RAW, you are saving the file in its unprocessed form. It is the equivalent of a film 'negative'. No processing in-camera takes place.

Take a sample shot in RAW mode and then the same shot in .Jpeg. You will notice the RAW file is much, much larger in size.
RAW conversion software is designed to make your changes, then converts to the final .Jpeg format.

This is only a very basic explanation of the differences.

 

[carusoswi]

So, I just purchased a new Sony Alpha 100. It came supplied with software called Picture Motion that has what to me are very basic editing features. I can affect levels to the overall image, but, no area specific editing (at least, that's what I assume, having played with the software). There are descriptions in the help file about auto levels, but I have not found them. I don't see any provision for burn/dodge.

So, in order to make some of the changes I feel are necessary to some images, I have to convert to jpeg so that I can edit in PS (I have CS2).

I updated this Picture Motion software from Sony's web site, didn't help or change any features.

My PS help files have descriptions about working in RAW, but, so far, I have not discovered a way to open my camera's raw files in PS.

Also, the Picture Motion software can "develop" to jpeg or TIFF. I think I would prefer to work in TIFF, but, notice that many of the features in PS do not affect TIFF files.

I know this post is a bit all over the map with respect to this thread topic, but it is related (which is why I opened the topic).

Any suggestions would be welcome. (Oh, the Alpha 100 allows me to shoot in RAW + JPG which gives me two versions of each shot - being a recent film convert, the 130 or so shots per 2gb card is plenty for me, so that's what I'm doing for now.)

Caruso

 

[GwagDesigns]

I think what im jusdt wondering is what the advantage to editing a JEPG in camera raw, opposed ot editing a RAW file in camera raw, just that is hasnt been compressed yet?

 

[three_eyed_otter]

Raw to JPEG = compression

JPEG to JPEG = compression

altered JPEG equals 2 compressions............altered RAW to JPEG equals 1 compression

You sacrifice quality w/every conversion..........It's kind of like an Elmo doll w/lead paint or an Elmo doll w/out lead paint.

have a good one
3Eo

 

[LokiZ]

Why does everyone seem to think you HAVE to convert to Jpeg??? There are many more graphic file formats then just Jpeg. Some of them unlike Jpeg are lossless for the most part. I myself convert my Raw into Tiff the only time my files would be converted to Jpeg are after all final edits have been applied. For me it goes like this.

1> check RAW image out in RAW editor and apply changes if any are needed.
2> Export to lossless file format. Tiff for me.
3> Bring into PS and make any final edits if needed (Dodge, burn, whatever)
4> If printing, print from lossless file format
5> THEN if my image needed to be used for web or some other file sized restriction I change it to JPG. But not before that.

Mind you this is coming from an angle where I wanted RAW because I need as much quality, color, and clarity as can be given. When I don't care about that and JPG is what is being used then I have to play with what I have. But why start off converting the RAW to a Jpeg first thing. If that is what people are doing I can see why they question using RAW in the first place.

So the answer to your question GWag...is that you do not have to convert the Raw to a compressed graphic file format like JPG. You can choose to save for future editing in a lossless file format. It's like this, JPG is like making photocopies where each time you use the copy you just made to make the next copy. Eventually it is not worth much, why do that to yourself or your works of art.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[LokiZ]

carusoswi, As far as Tiff and losing options in PS....(depending what version perhaps.) Most of the options you loose in my experience is when your tiff file is a 16bit image rather then an 8bit image. you can convert 16 to 8 as needed.

So that depends on what you need to do. In my opinion an 8bit tif is still better then a jpg file.

Again my humble opinion

 

[Garbz]

Raw to JPEG = compression

JPEG to JPEG = compression

altered JPEG equals 2 compressions............altered RAW to JPEG equals 1 compression

You sacrifice quality w/every conversion..........It's kind of like an Elmo doll w/lead paint or an Elmo doll w/out lead paint.

have a good one
3Eo

Q12 JPEG -> Q12 JPEG repeated about 20 times showed no noticeable difference from the lossless original in my tests. People's fears about this are overrated or they are using a low quality.

Things you lose when using camera RAW to edit JPEGs:
- Jpegs are 8bit, RAW are 16bit. Any adjustments you make to JPEG will not be 100% accurate because of posterisation (no new information when changing exposures or colours to fill in the gaps and make smooth transitions)
- Colour temperture information. Open a RAW and I can set my colour temperture to 5300K with +3 tint if I want. In JPEG I can only push it left or right and am unable to set the cloudy, daylight, etc options which is one of the biggest benefits IMO in choosing RAW in the first place.
- Working with raw data means that no previous editing has taken place. Try sharpening a picture 3 or 4 times to understand the implications of what I am talking about.
- Nothing else.

 

[three_eyed_otter]

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/RAW-file-format.htm

Here is a website that can give you a visulization in the difference between 8 bit and 16 bit as well as a lossy coversion.

have a good one
3Eo