Out of the Shadows and Looking for Advice

[sm4him]

"Out of the shadows" because, while I've been here a while now, I often feel like I do a lot of lurking in the shadows, only commenting when I have something particularly witty or insightful to say. Many of you are now wondering how I ever even got past 5 posts if I wait til I have something witty or intelligent to say.
I almost never post photos asking for C&C because:
a) I have rejection issues, and ya'll scare me. :lmao:
b) Seriously...I mostly don't post for C&C because I usually KNOW what's wrong with my photos, I just have to work at fixing those issues. And I also just read all the C&C on others' photos and use the advice that I feel is worthwhile to work on my own.

If you don't like long-windedness, or just don't find me entertaining, scroll to the part that says MY POINT...

I've said before that I've been "doing photography" for 30+ years, and that's true, but other than a few years at the very beginning (when I was a teenager) I've never really taken it seriously until a couple of years ago.
So, I don't fit the "noob" category, but I want to be clear that there is MUCH I need to learn. I do have a good grasp of the exposure triangle, and composition.

The MAJOR thing that I have ignored all these years is, I believe, why I still often just think my photos are lacking "something." Lighting.
All these years, I'd say 90% of the photos I took were nature and landscape, and I simply used whatever ambient light there was. I did try to consider WHERE the sun was, but I didn't go shoot (or not shoot) at a particular time of the day, I just dealt with whatever I had at the time. Most of the remaining 10% of my photos were never even meant to be something besides snapshots: family Christmas pics, kids playing, etc.

When I got my Nikon D5100, I couldn't afford any more lenses, but planned to save and buy them as I could.

I've just recently finished a good contract job and should have around $500-600 (after buying tires...and eyeglasses...and eyeglasses for my son...) to buy lenses.
BUT...as I've gotten more serious about my photography, I've also realized that I need to really learn lighting better. That is to say, at all. I've done a couple of photo shoots for family members and trying to break out of the "all nature, all the time" mode of photography I've been in for the last 30 years...

MY POINT
To those who skipped all the drivel, welcome back.
So...I will have around $500, maybe $600, to spend. Originally, I intended to buy a prime lenses and a zoom lens (all I have right now is the 18-55 kit lens).
But now I'm thinking maybe I should be one lens and a flash instead.

Here's my questions:
--Two lenses, or a one lens and a flash? If the latter, which lens? The prime (probably a 50mm 1.8) or the zoom (haven't decided which zoom). I take a LOT of nature, would love to do macro, but also want to branch out and try new things, including some more photo shoots (but still probably 80% outdoors, 20% indoors)
--If a flash, what should I get for the D5100? I've read the two sentences in my manual about flash units, and do a little reading online. I'm not sure if I understand it all correctly. It sounds like, for the 5100, the only way to use a flash off-camera is to buy two flash units, and mount one on the camera. Is that right? It also sounds like the flash units won't even work right for anything faster than 1/200 sec on the 5100.
I can't afford two flash units, so if I just buy one, and that one has to be mounted on the camera, will it really help that much?
Am I completely wrong about how the flashes work with the 5100?

 

[jowensphoto]

I can't afford two flash units, so if I just buy one, and that one has to be mounted on the camera, will it really help that much?
Am I completely wrong about how the flashes work with the 5100?

Amazon.com: Yongnuo RF-602 Remote Wireless Flash Trigger for Nikon Receiver & Transmitter (RF-602/N): Camera & Photo <--- these combined with some sort of support (stand that comes with the flash, ball bungee, heck, even your hand!) will allow you to use the flash off camera.

 

[bazooka]

I recommend reading Lighting 101 at strobist.com. This will catch you up to speed on lighting. The manual flash I use, LP160, is $160. The Cybersync transmitter and receivers are around $60 each. So for less than $300, you could get a dependable one-light off-camera flash setup (manual only). If you want to stretch your dollar, there are more affordable (but possibly less dependable) options for both flashes and wireless transceivers.

I believe learning off-camera lighting is going to go much further toward making you a better photographer and drastically increasing your capability more than getting an additional lens. With lighting, as far as photo impact goes, you get much more bang for your buck.

 

[sm4him]

Thanks, both of you! Bazooka, thanks for the link; I've read some other stuff on strobist.com, but hadn't tackled the Lighting 101...started it this afternoon, looks like it's just what I need. And that LP160 really does look like the way to go.
Also, I assume I'll need both the transmitter and the receiver, so a total of $120 (assuming I go with the Cybersync). I'm all for stretching my dollar, but I've worked hard for this money just so I could buy some new equipment, and I'd rather "splurge" a teeny bit and at least get quality I'm going to be happy with down the road. I can always buy the cheap crap later, like I'm used to doing.

About to reveal my ignorance here, but what do you mean when you say "manual only"? The camera would still tell the flash when to fire, right? Or no?
Ah, well, I'm sure I'll get to that part. I've only read the first two sections and watched that video at the beginning.

I already have some cheap lightstands and really cheap umbrellas that I got on craigslist. The stands didn't have any kind of mount on them, so I'll have to buy something to mount the flash and umbrella to the stand, as well. Hope those don't cost too much--I haven't even gotten the check in the mail yet, and I've already spent it all!

But yeah, I think this is the way to go...a prime lens and this LP160 and then plowing into Lighting 101.

Unless someone else changes my mind.

 

[Rephargotohp]

Sometimes in a Photographer's life, they finally learn that's it's not about the Exposure Triangle or getting your focus perfect...it's about being able to ...See

You say you mostly want to shoot nature? Are you speaking Wildlife or landscapes? If either of them. a 50 1.8 nor a flash is the answer at all

 

[SCraig]

The D5100 does not have a built-in commander mode so if you use off-camera flashes you will:

1) Need a TTL cord to connect camera to hot shoe. They are normally short and don't allow a lot of movement

2) An SU-800 Speedlight Commander. I'm not 100% sure this will work but about 90% sure. It will allow TTL communications with compatible speedlights.

3) Shoot flash in slave mode. The the off-camera flash triggers when it sees the flash from the pop-up flash. This does not provide TTL metering information and will have to be done in manual. The flash unit will have to be compatible as well.

4) Use radio triggers. Unless you get expensive triggers you will not get TTL information transmitted and will have to shoot manual flash. Cactus triggers are cheap (about $50 a pair) and work reasonably well.

As to lenses look at Tamron or Sigma. Very good lenses at a lot lower cost than Nikon lenses.

 

[Annerotica]

Thanks for coming out of the shadows and welcome to the board!

 

[sm4him]

Sometimes in a Photographer's life, they finally learn that's it's not about the Exposure Triangle or getting your focus perfect...it's about being able to ...See

You say you mostly want to shoot nature? Are you speaking Wildlife or landscapes? If either of them. a 50 1.8 nor a flash is the answer at all

Thanks. I get that; I really do.
I'm not looking for "the answer": I'm simply looking to expand my skills and equipment. You can do that and "See" too.
And what I said was the I have *always* shot a lot of nature and landscapes--The nature photos I take tend to be flowers, *some* wildlife (but not the kind that requires 500mm lenses, not yet anyway), abstracts, interesting insects, leaves, trees, etc.

While most of my photography will still be nature-related, I'd like to start exploring other areas as well. I'm not thinking a 50 1.8 and a flash are going to make me the next great Arteest. Just something else to learn.

 

[sm4him]

The D5100 does not have a built-in commander mode so if you use off-camera flashes you will:

1) Need a TTL cord to connect camera to hot shoe. They are normally short and don't allow a lot of movement

2) An SU-800 Speedlight Commander. I'm not 100% sure this will work but about 90% sure. It will allow TTL communications with compatible speedlights.

3) Shoot flash in slave mode. The the off-camera flash triggers when it sees the flash from the pop-up flash. This does not provide TTL metering information and will have to be done in manual. The flash unit will have to be compatible as well.

4) Use radio triggers. Unless you get expensive triggers you will not get TTL information transmitted and will have to shoot manual flash. Cactus triggers are cheap (about $50 a pair) and work reasonably well.

As to lenses look at Tamron or Sigma. Very good lenses at a lot lower cost than Nikon lenses.

I know that the D5100 has some real limitations on its off-camera flash abilities; that's much of what prompted me to ask advice from the wise sages of TPF.
You bring up some good points...more questions than answers... and I'll start researching some of what you said. It *looked* to me like that flash Bazooka mentioned would work better than some others for my camera, but I want to be absolutely sure before I bite.
On your second point, about the SU-800 Commander, I was under the impression that it *wouldn't* work for the D5100, but again, I'm in the early stages of understanding how the flashes work, what I *can* use and what I *should* use.

So, if I get radio triggers, are you saying I *will* then get TTL information? Or am I screwed for get TTL info transmitted regardless of what I use on this camera?
Thanks for your insights; every bit of information helps me start sorting it all out!

 

[sm4him]

As to lenses look at Tamron or Sigma. Very good lenses at a lot lower cost than Nikon lenses.

Oh, and yeah, I've been thinking about these. I go back and forth between looking at these brands wanting Nikon because somehow, in my head, it's "got to be better." Even though I know it's not. Overall, I'm very open to Sigma or Tamron, but I'm not clear on what coding to look for to make sure it is the AF-S equivalent.
Since the D5100 doesn't have an internal motor, I *need* that AF-S equivalent lens. Yes, you *can* use other lenses and focus manually, but because of vision problems, I would not trust myself to be able to focus completely manual and produce sharp images.

 

[SCraig]

I know that the D5100 has some real limitations on its off-camera flash abilities; that's much of what prompted me to ask advice from the wise sages of TPF.
You bring up some good points...more questions than answers... and I'll start researching some of what you said. It *looked* to me like that flash Bazooka mentioned would work better than some others for my camera, but I want to be absolutely sure before I bite.
On your second point, about the SU-800 Commander, I was under the impression that it *wouldn't* work for the D5100, but again, I'm in the early stages of understanding how the flashes work, what I *can* use and what I *should* use.

So, if I get radio triggers, are you saying I *will* then get TTL information? Or am I screwed for get TTL info transmitted regardless of what I use on this camera?
Thanks for your insights; every bit of information helps me start sorting it all out!

The only real limitation the 5100 has as far as its flash goes is that it doesn't have a built-in commander mode which Nikon uses to transmit TTL data between the camera and off-camera flash. The SU-800 commander takes the place of the in-camera commander mode, and I'm pretty sure it will work. If you can't get a definitive answer here I've had good luck in the past asking Nikon questions through their support page.

Some of the newer radio triggers, as in Pocket Wizards TTL, will transmit TTL information so that the flash and camera can transfer data about the exposure. Not all of the radio triggers will do that. Pocket Wizard has a new model (relatively new? I'm not real sure) that has "TTL" in the model number. They are supposed to maintain full TTL compatibility, but I don't have first-hand experience with them. What little off-camera flash work I do I use the commander mode in my D90.

My D60 does not have the built-in commander mode either which is why I have a set of Cactus radio triggers. They are inexpensive but as little as I use them they work fine. I am limited to manual flash mode though so I have to set the flashes and camera individually.