"P Stands for Professional" or does it?

[sashbar]

I have spent some time flipping through his portfolio, the guy is definitely talented, no doubt about it. Auto or not, some images are well beyond the commercial wedding photography. Unlike 99.9 % of this genre, there are images that have an independent photographic value. No wonder people pay to be part of these images.

 

[imagemaker46]

My guessing at some point he lucked into a high society type wedding and it spun from there, word of mouth carries a lot of weight. Shooting everything on auto, well good for him, although I still can imagine situations where light would become a factor. How many images has he missed because of an auto only shoot. Perhaps there are all kinds of behind the scenes things going on that he doesn't talk about. If he's doing well for himself then good for him, and if auto works for him, then good for him. I never shoot auto, never have, it works for me shooting manual.

Don't look for me on youtube boasting the fact that I shoot sports well, and I don't use auto.

 

[vintagesnaps]

I can't say I saw anything that made me particularly want to look any further. But this does seem to involve a certain amount of marketing; I mean, he's got himself on Creative Live etc. which gets him seen online in a more mass market way and I would think must make him more money.

I think eventually some of what you're seeing might run its course. It seems like those type people with cameras are eventually going to get tired of the work involved and underpricing and not necessarily making much money at it, and all they need is to start having to deal with an unhappy client or two (or getting unfriended and bashed online etc.) or something happening and they weren't insured, etc. etc.

We've just had a number of years of a recession and of cutting costs, job cuts, etc. so it will probably not be a fast process of it changing (even though there are signs continually of improvement and people not necessarily wanting the cheapest option possible). If some of those people with cameras don't have the passion for it I'd expect eventually they'll get tired of playing at being photographers and move on.

 

[beachrat]

I used to work with a guy that finished every wall and ceiling with an 11" trowel.
No bigger,no smaller.
While the rest of us struggled with everything from pointers to 18" bulls,he smashed everything with that one tool because he knew exactly how to push it.
He knew how to work that tool to its full potential.
Same thing.

 

[photoguy99]

This has been bothering me, so let me clear this out:

P mode isn't Auto.

ETA: The bhphoto video has a coherent and complete explanation of why he uses it, how he uses it, and why it's the right tool for what he does. Not what you do, not what I do, what HE does.

Austin is only partially right about his video, by the way. Yes, Joe talks a lot about passion and personal vision (and he's spot on) but he segues immediately after into how to turn that into a business model.

If you want to move up-market, he's totally worth a watch.

You're gonna need to find a personal vision, though. If you're just grinding out flickr/500px ready copycat stuff, his ideas are useless to you. Yeah, I'm probably looking at YOU, and YOU TOO. But not YOU, you're ok.

 

[beachrat]

I'm not OK.

 

[photoguy99]

I'm not OK.

Then watch the first 20 minutes of the bhphoto video! It's for you! It will make you be OK. Whether or not you want to be.

 

[Vtec44]

The only time I shoot in full auto is either when I use OCF or doing portrait/studio work. I shoot however I shoot to get the result I want. So Auto, P, S, A, you name it.

 

[beachrat]

I'm OK now.
Like it matters.

 

[Vtec44]

BTW, Joe doesn't really care what you think of which mode he shoots. He charges like 15k per wedding.

 

[photoguy99]

BTW, Joe doesn't really care what you think of which mode he shoots. He charges like 15k per wedding.

If I were guessing I would guess 3-10x that number. Is that a real figure, or just a guess as well?

 

[Ilovemycam]

I'm sure this has already been discussed here, yet when searching for a previous post I couldn't find one.

Yesterday, I learned about Joe Buissink. Really I more just came across him speaking in a B&H video on YouTube. You see, I've been wanting to expand into shooting weddings for some time now. I've grown sick of seeing crap images on local photography Facebook pages, and I've steadily become determined to push them out of the local market.

But that's besides the point. The question here, comes from what I learned about Joe, or "Uncle Joe" as he calls himself. The guy is incredibly successful. If there is a definition for a "winner" in the wedding photography game, this guy is it. He shoots around the world, and his clients range from Jessica Simpson, to Michael Jordan. The surprise came when I learned that he shoots almost exclusively in Auto, and has for the past 18 years.

We're all taught, "Get out of Auto", "Stay in Manual", or "Learn about Av/Tv" from such an early stage, to see a master in his own right using Auto mode seemed like blasphemy. 2 hours of listening to him speak in his video later, and I'm finding his logic to be, surprisingly, spot on.

I can't say I don't fully understand why he'd shoot in Auto vs Av or Tv modes, but at the end of the day the guy gets the gigs, and he gets the results. It's a tough pill to swallow, this whole "shoot in Auto" thing, but I'm finding myself considering what I'll do during my first weddings more and more.

So, what about everyone else? What are your thoughts? Do you ever shoot in full Auto? Is it blasphemy, or just a technique to focus more on content then technique, as Joe suggests? After all, isn't it true that "P" does mean "Professional" in his case?

P.S: I should mention that he does not endorse spray and pray, and that that is an entirely separate topic which really doesn't fit into this discussion.

Very seldom I shoot auto. I hate program codes. I pay big money to shoot manual. I don't like being raped, but that is how cameras turned out nowadays. (Leica)

I like superwides and shoot left and right on the street. Either direction has different light. Sometimes very different light.

nsfw

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe..._Pizza_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg

Go try shooting auto in the shade left then shooting in the sun right with a fisheye...do it instantly. I can adjust the Leica in a snap while walking and don't have to even look at it.

I shoot tons in the black of night.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fa/Juggalos_no._4_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1024px-Juggalos_no._4_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...no._36_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...ess'_Copyright_2013_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr-mr.jpg

nsfw

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5b/Bikers'_Mardi_Gras_no._6_Copyright_2012_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr...jpg/735px-Bikers'_Mardi_Gras_no._6_Copyright_2012_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr...jpg

I need fast adjustments in an instant. As such I use manual cams like Leica and the half-ass Fuji. Now, I don't like either cam, they both have problems. But they are the tools that are available to me.

M240 IQ is 'just' doable for me. I prefer Fuji's X sensor for IQ.

This is about as good as it gets for the M240 with my work.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Bikers%27_Mardi_Gras_no.177_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1046px-Bikers%27_Mardi_Gras_no.177_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Juggalete_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1037px-Juggalete_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/Amsterdam_no._49_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/997px-Amsterdam_no._49_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg

M240

They talk of pixel density. The Leica M240 strikes me as 'low density' compared to the Fuji...but I'm not expert. Just some files work better than others. Leica's files will fall apart when you push em.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/The_Plane_Worshipers_vers_1_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1040px-The_Plane_Worshipers_vers_1_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/Orient_Beach_St._Martin_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr._LR.jpg/1026px-Orient_Beach_St._Martin_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr._LR.jpg

If you like manual controls Leica is it. What a shame you have to pay so much premium for a manual cam with a so-so sensor. There is nothing wrong with the sensor for snapshot shooters, but it is second rate in my opinion. If only they made more cams with a simple shutter speed dial, aperture controls and a manual focus ring.

I prefer Fuji's X sensor for IQ.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Mosh_Pit_no._7_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1280px-Mosh_Pit_no._7_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg

Fuji X-E1

Fuji has a stupendous sensor. It is so good, I hate having to use the Leica sensor cause I know what the Fuji can do. But, I hate fighting the screwy controls on the Fuji. Fuji must have been designed by a real camera fondler. Focus by wire is one of the worst inventions that have come out of camera design. And Fuji's trend is to dummy down their lenses removing controls.

When I put a flash on my Fuji it wont work unless you reprogram the damn cam. I've missed many a shot due to the screwy Fuji. When I put a flash in my Leica...guess what...it works. That is worth $7000 isn't it? But, both cams are fudged up in their own way. So I can't chew out Fuji over Leica or Leica over Fuji.

If Leica had put a first rate sensor in their cam then the only issue would be the price. The Leica is not disposable, the Fuji is disposable. I ruin my cams regularly and can't afford to lose my Leicas. I use Fuji's when their is danger.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Faygo_Gathering_of_the_Juggalos_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/757px-Faygo_Gathering_of_the_Juggalos_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg

Fuji X-E1

OP...'P' stand for...well I can' say it here. This forum full of camera fondlers would not like it. Suffice it to say it is a 'P' word.

I like having full control in an instant with my cams OP.

nsfw

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...i_Gras_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg

In the end OP...it does not matter what I say he said or they say. Do what works for you.

 

[photoguy99]

Jesus, Daniel. Way to hijack a thread.

 

[Vtec44]

I can't neither confirm or deny if the figure is real

 

[Austin Greene]

I can't neither confirm or deny if the figure is real

I'd hope that if J. Simpson turned around and sold a couple of his images to a magazine for 1.5 million, that he either
A) Got a cut of that
or
B) Charged a lot more than 15K for that wedding