Please identify my Marion: SOHO Reflex Tropical

[optimus_photo]

Hello everyone,

My father is a hardcore collector and has quite a few antique cameras in his collection. He told me that one of the most valuable and one of his favourite is, Marion SOHO Reflex Tropical. I have been doing research as far as the authenticity and the value. I am convinced that it is Marion SOHO camera. However, I am not convinced that the lens is the lens that came with it. Does anyone know anything about this? I have some pictures and will upload more if needed. I am sorry if the picture is pretty heavy.

Marion: Soho Tropen Reflex (Tropical) Price Guide: estimate a camera value

This is the camera:

 

[webestang64]

I do not think that lens came with the camera new. Must have been added later.

Here is a brochure .......


Camera Eccentric: Info

 

[IanG]

The pre WWI Soho Reflex cameras were sold with Cooke, Dallmeyer, Zeiss, Ross lenses of varying quality and price but also without a lens. Sometimes you see them listed second hand with a Beck lens and that looks quite similar to one of my Beck lenses.

I'm talking about contemporary listings of second-hand cameras in BJP Almanacs etc. So a second-hand listing in 1910 with a Beck lens is probably the camera's original lens. My other BJP Almanacs are locked up for the night but it would lake some time going through the second-hand listings.

My own 5x4 Soho Reflex has a recessed Cooke Triplet. The catalogue linked to above is much later than the advert I'm looking at. I think it's quite likely that could be the original lens.

Ian

 

[IanG]

Should add it's possible the original owner already had the lens which is clearly a Rapid Rectilinear and just bought the camera body with plate holders.

Just to add a fly to the ointment Beck also sold Soho Reflex cameras. Note though this was made 1929-to late 1930's it's not a Marion Soho Reflex, Marion had become part of APeM and when that broke up in 1929 Soho Ltd.

So a late model with a lens made up until around the Soho Reflex was introduce in 1904.

Ian

 

[vintagesnaps]

I think cameras of that era had various lenses or as someone said, came without a lens. I've seen pictures of a particular view camera body shown with different lenses.

Are there markings on this lens? All I could make out was Anastigmatic (maybe).

There seems to be similar wear to the lens and metal parts of the camera so I'd agree that could indicate it could be original to the camera.

 

[IanG]

I think cameras of that era had various lenses or as someone said, came without a lens. I've seen pictures of a particular view camera body shown with different lenses.

Are there markings on this lens? All I could make out was Anastigmatic (maybe).

There seems to be similar wear to the lens and metal parts of the camera so I'd agree that could indicate it could be original to the camera.

An Anastigmat lens (or Double Anatigmat) has significantly less spacing between the front and rear cells, the lens here is a very typical generic Rapid Rectilinear.

The Soho Reflex cameras took interchangeable lens boards and could be used with more than one lens, but not a wide angle as the mirror is in the way. In comparison a Thornton Pickard Ruby Reflex, or Ensign reflex (and most other British Reflex cameras) were used with just one lens, with no easy means of changing lenses.

From the proportions I'd guess the Soho Reflex here is quarter plate, there's a 5x4 version on Ebay at the moment in superb condition (like new) but being sold as part of a collection. It need a bit of restoration but it's unfortunate the bellows and hood are in poor condition which means it's in less than average condition. Looking at the values on "collectiblend.com" it's disturbing to see they say they are based on "Camera sales and other sources with added premiums, converted and inflation-adjusted prices:" which grossly inflates prices of a few years ago skewing the averages value significantly upwards.

Ian

 

[optimus_photo]

Thank you so much everyone for the response. That's very helpful. The lens has the writing : aplanaat foto no 2

Ian:
Yes, this is the 4x3 plate. What do you think about the value at this condition?

Thank you again.

 

[vintagesnaps]

I don't think Collectiblend seems to give much or the most accurate info.

If there's a camera swap in your area that would be a good place to try to sell it. I think since it needs some repair/replacement (bellows, which seems to be do-able and buyers may want to do that themselves), condition could lower the value. Some buyers are looking for one to restore.

There is an annual camera show & sale in my state if you want to take a look; the list at the bottom is from last May (and is a mile long!); the same guy does other camera swaps in the region. Looks like you can consign cameras, but I don't know the specifics on shipping, etc.

occs Home Page at Historic Camera

 

[vintagesnaps]

Seems like a lot of companies made their own version of an Aplanat Foto no. 2 (doing a quick search) or if there's a manufacturer or company name on it. I noticed a serial number on the body but I don't know if there's a database of serial numbers to determine when a camera was made (other than Leica keeping old records of anything they ever made).

 

[IanG]

Thank you so much everyone for the response. That's very helpful. The lens has the writing : aplanaat foto no 2

Ian:
Yes, this is the 4x3 plate. What do you think about the value at this condition?

Thank you again.

Well that confirms the lens is a Rapid Rectilinear. Value is impossible to estimate with camera in this condition, but idiots will pay too much not realising what they are really buying.

I restore cameras like this regularly, the problem is the work involved is so time consuming it's not really economic when you need new bellows and you won't get any to match anyway, it's a DIY approach or expensive. I do it because I can and it's learning curve for the really valuable cameras.

I own or have restored a lot of older cameras (for myself and others) however wouldn't contemplate your camera lightly, I have a big backlog anyway so it's not an option.

As to value I can pick up a good 5x4 Soho Reflex for under £200, I paid a lot less for mine as it needs a shutter repair which I can do. A Tropical Reflex is worth more but a good 5x4 version in reasonable condition can be bought for just over $1,000, only more if near mint, a quarter plate version is a lot less valuable unless really mint as film's not readily available and collectors only buy mint, us (in my case) photographers buy what's fun to use.

Potentially it's a valuable camera. It's the sort of camera I'd only buy dirt cheap, I 'd strip it down completely, clean and re-French polish the woodwork, re-polish and lacquer the brass work, but no-one makes replacement bellows that look original, the materials just aren't available, and that's the big dilemma.

Ian

 

[IanG]

I don't think Collectiblend seems to give much or the most accurate info.

If there's a camera swap in your area that would be a good place to try to sell it. I think since it needs some repair/replacement (bellows, which seems to be do-able and buyers may want to do that themselves), condition could lower the value. Some buyers are looking for one to restore.

There is an annual camera show & sale in my state if you want to take a look; the list at the bottom is from last May (and is a mile long!); the same guy does other camera swaps in the region. Looks like you can consign cameras, but I don't know the specifics on shipping, etc.

occs Home Page at Historic Camera

Near me in the UK I have 4 or 5 Camera Fairs a year - half an hours drive, less and less good unusual items these days. If I travelled a bit further, maybe 90 minutes, there's slightly bigger Camera fair, or travel further there Photographica in London.

They aren't the best places to go to, you need the Flea markets, car boot sales, in the US Garage sales, and then the Auctions.

Ian