Print mark-up/profit

[KmH]

I marked up prints on a sliding scale. Desktop size prints got marked up a lot more than wall size prints did.

 

[CCericola]

Not talking about me...I work as much as I want to work.

If you think the industry is strong you have your head in the sand.
If your business is strong then good for you, but as I said for the most part the middle is dropping out, and the decline is accelerating.

I'm not sure you have a good understanding of the photography industry. The part time , week-end warriors and moms with cameras, no matter what they think are not really in the industry. If you are seeing a decline then you are 1. Not marketing properly, or 2. Not a very good photographer.

The retail and commercial statistics from last year have seen a nice steady rise as the population grows. Even when 9-11 happened, the studio I worked for kept going strong. ( We did lose some money trying to get some photogs home that were stuck in airports in other states but that was a short term loss)

When I went out on my own after paying my dues working for other studios and photographers I realized that the part time craigslist photographer was not my competition. Sears and Walmart, are not my competition. There is no need for me to even try to emulate anything they do.

The first time I raised my prices I held my breath. Would anyone go for it? Well the thing is people want what they think the average person cannot afford. Like David Choe. He sold art for $500, when he decided to price his work at $10,000 then all of the sudden he was in demand. (ok, the Facebook connection didn't hurt either)

 

[MLeeK]

Not talking about me...I work as much as I want to work.

If you think the industry is strong you have your head in the sand.
If your business is strong then good for you, but as I said for the most part the middle is dropping out, and the decline is accelerating.

I'm not sure you have a good understanding of the photography industry. The part time , week-end warriors and moms with cameras, no matter what they think are not really in the industry. If you are seeing a decline then you are 1. Not marketing properly, or 2. Not a very good photographer.

The retail and commercial statistics from last year have seen a nice steady rise as the population grows. Even when 9-11 happened, the studio I worked for kept going strong. ( We did lose some money trying to get some photogs home that were stuck in airports in other states but that was a short term loss)

When I went out on my own after paying my dues working for other studios and photographers I realized that the part time craigslist photographer was not my competition. Sears and Walmart, are not my competition. There is no need for me to even try to emulate anything they do.

The first time I raised my prices I held my breath. Would anyone go for it? Well the thing is people want what they think the average person cannot afford. Like David Choe. He sold art for $500, when he decided to price his work at $10,000 then all of the sudden he was in demand. (ok, the Facebook connection didn't hurt either)

Adding to Christina's awesome info...

I am just a part time warrior mom with a camera in my hand... And I do pretty fairly. I am not making millions by a LONG shot, but I am profiting enough to feed my family and keep us off the poverty level/food stamp line. Could I DO and BE more? Absolutely. However I don't want to. I only want to do maybe 3 portraits a week and maybe 3 sporting events. I don't want to work any more than 15-20 hours at this, so I market appropriately for what I NEED.
Your business is what you make it. NO business is an "if you build it they will come" kind of thing. You have to MAKE your business work. If what you're doing isn't getting the $ you want, you're doing something wrong for you. If you put your head in the sand and say "it's not there", it won't be. It IS there-in abundance-you have to find it. It doesn't just find you.

First and foremost you have to have a FULL picture of CODB and COG combined for your total costs.
Then you have to know what you NEED to make and WANT to make.
How many hours, days, weeks you want to work.
That tells you what you have to make off each session/event/etc.
Chances are you aren't going to get that much in a sitting fee... So that tells you how much you have to make off the print order.
ALL of that combined tells you who you are going to market to. Once you decide WHO you market to you have to figure out HOW-what is going to make them NEED you and only you? What is going to make them NEED to pay your price?
You are still thinking with YOUR wallet and you have GOT to stop doing that-it's a sure fire way to failure. Other people with the same wallet value different things AND in most cases you would not be your own client. I know I am definitely not my own client!
It's there. Truly it is

 

[MReid]

Remember when I said I wasn't talking about me....why are you addressing your comments toward me and or my business.
Remember when I said I know the arguments....not sure why people are repeating the arguments.

I said that when a client knows they can get a photo for 2 dollars that a photographer will have a hard time justifying charging 30....went on to say that clients who are willing to pay for quality will always be willing to pay more.

This industry is in the decline....and accelerating....I stand by that.

 

[CCericola]

I think we are just confused by your statement because everything published by the PPA, WPPA, PMA(PSPA, PMAI) even the US dept of labor says otherwise.

 

[MReid]

No problem...it is all in the interest of discussion. I hope they are all right. We all have our own points of view...that is what keeps things interesting.

Here is a link to a discussion somewhat along what we have been talking about....(so sorry for the hijack) interesting anyway.
This is great. Who pissed her off?? - FM Forums

 

[CCericola]

Hehe, I remember that craigslist ad. I think I must have seen it on another forum. Scary isn't it? Bride-zillas and Mothra-inlaws are my greatest fear. Thankfully I don't have too many, I only do 15-20 weddings a year.

 

[jowensphoto]

Appreciate all the info everyone has provided. Everyone has different outlooks, and it's certainly great to have them all to take into consideration.

I'm doing research on SBA.gov and have a few contacts in my area who have started their own photography businesses. One lady mentioned mentoring awhile back, I think it's time to get back in touch with her

Also, thanks for taking my questions at face value... I was afraid this would turn into the "Starting My Photog Biz...PLZ HELP!" posts we're all too accustomed to reading on a daily basis. LOL

 

[ahcigar1]

Not talking about me...I work as much as I want to work.

If you think the industry is strong you have your head in the sand.
If your business is strong then good for you, but as I said for the most part the middle is dropping out, and the decline is accelerating.

I'm not sure you have a good understanding of the photography industry. The part time , week-end warriors and moms with cameras, no matter what they think are not really in the industry. If you are seeing a decline then you are 1. Not marketing properly, or 2. Not a very good photographer.

The retail and commercial statistics from last year have seen a nice steady rise as the population grows. Even when 9-11 happened, the studio I worked for kept going strong. ( We did lose some money trying to get some photogs home that were stuck in airports in other states but that was a short term loss)

When I went out on my own after paying my dues working for other studios and photographers I realized that the part time craigslist photographer was not my competition. Sears and Walmart, are not my competition. There is no need for me to even try to emulate anything they do.

The first time I raised my prices I held my breath. Would anyone go for it? Well the thing is people want what they think the average person cannot afford. Like David Choe. He sold art for $500, when he decided to price his work at $10,000 then all of the sudden he was in demand. (ok, the Facebook connection didn't hurt either)

This makes some sense. But the fact is the everyday soccer moms and the people who buy a camera and now think that makes them pro are in fact killing the market. Because in this economy people are much more willing to pay less than more. And if they can get something for even worse for free then they will take it and pass up the true pro photographer. It is happening in all aspects of photography all over. Many people don't care what the quality is. If it has a pricetag of free then they will take it. The amount of marketing you always do doesn't matter.

 

[Rephargotohp]

What industry has not been killed by "Someone able to do it cheaper"? It's why there is no manufacturing in America and why after manufacturing failed, retail/service sector failed for similar reasons.
What industry hasn't been hit? Music, Software, PC Computers, Home Builders... list goes on and on because someone was able to do it cheaper or people wanted it or thought they deserved it for free (Piracy)

So what do you do, well you can give up and many do or are forced to. But if you want to stay, you need to use good business practices and know how to run and price a business correctly. You can't just throw everything away. We did that in America and now look where we are.

Provide something the customer can't do themselves and that is amazing photographs. With camera technology today, Anyone can take a well exposed, in focus photo ( well some still can't even "pros") but a well exposed and in focus image is NOT what great photography is about. If you think that's it, you don't get the it in it and you won't be able to convince any consumer that your photos are worth $500 to them.

Take Apple as an example. Love them or hate them aside. NO one wanted to pay for music. EVERYONE stole it...but wait...Apple has people Pay for music...and they do. Why?
No one thinks any PC is different. They're all the same. Why Pay $3,000 for a PC the one for $400 is fine...except...people will pay... for Apple.

It's not easy, the business does suck...but it can be done

I didn't want to get into this, I wanted to just stick to talking about how to price for the OP...but as usual....

OK, I'm done LOL

 

[KmH]

This makes some sense. But the fact is the everyday soccer moms and the people who buy a camera and now think that makes them pro are in fact killing the market.

What quantitative facts do you base that statement on?

What market segment are you referring to? Because there are many, many market segments.

The markets are pretty much self regulating. Photographers trying to participate in a market segment beyond their photographic and business capabilities either step it up, step back down, or go out of business.

 

[MLeeK]

Not talking about me...I work as much as I want to work.

If you think the industry is strong you have your head in the sand.
If your business is strong then good for you, but as I said for the most part the middle is dropping out, and the decline is accelerating.

I'm not sure you have a good understanding of the photography industry. The part time , week-end warriors and moms with cameras, no matter what they think are not really in the industry. If you are seeing a decline then you are 1. Not marketing properly, or 2. Not a very good photographer.

The retail and commercial statistics from last year have seen a nice steady rise as the population grows. Even when 9-11 happened, the studio I worked for kept going strong. ( We did lose some money trying to get some photogs home that were stuck in airports in other states but that was a short term loss)

When I went out on my own after paying my dues working for other studios and photographers I realized that the part time craigslist photographer was not my competition. Sears and Walmart, are not my competition. There is no need for me to even try to emulate anything they do.

The first time I raised my prices I held my breath. Would anyone go for it? Well the thing is people want what they think the average person cannot afford. Like David Choe. He sold art for $500, when he decided to price his work at $10,000 then all of the sudden he was in demand. (ok, the Facebook connection didn't hurt either)

This makes some sense. But the fact is the everyday soccer moms and the people who buy a camera and now think that makes them pro are in fact killing the market. Because in this economy people are much more willing to pay less than more. And if they can get something for even worse for free then they will take it and pass up the true pro photographer. It is happening in all aspects of photography all over. Many people don't care what the quality is. If it has a pricetag of free then they will take it. The amount of marketing you always do doesn't matter.

That's not true. The soccer mom is filling a need-her client isn't my client. They never would be and I sure do NOT want them to be. They aren't doing any damage to my market in any way, shape or form.
Amount of marketing is really irrelevant. It's what your marketing IS, what it does and how you use it. It's about who it is hitting and what their needs, beliefs, wants, desires are. I do very little in the AMOUNT of marketing I do. But what I do put out is very targeted and returns what I want it to return. If I put that same marketing out in massive quantity to just anyone it wouldn't give me the return that I want and need. I'd be throwing away marketing dollars to send stuff to the Soccer Mom's clients-the ones I do not want.

You are at a stage where the facebook, craigslist, soccer mom photographers are bothering you... You have to get past that because they are NOT doing any damage to the industry, they're only filling a need within it. We can look down on them and snark at them all we want, but they are a viable part of the industry filling a need I DO NOT want to fill, so I am glad they're there.

 

[KmH]

The amount of marketing you always do doesn't matter.

Absolutely!

The effectiveness of your marketing is what counts, not how much marketing you do.

It does no good to market to a socio-economic demographic that isn't in the market for, or can't afford to pay for, your services and product(s).