Product photography - review please

[gossamer]

Hi, I have a D500 and a 24-70mm 2.8 and trying to take some product shots of pet toys. I'm not a complete novice, but working with light is where I need the most help, and also haven't done much product photography before.

I recently bought a basic two-light CFL reflective umbrella setup along with a basic LED hotshoe light. The LED light is off the camera and on another light stand on the table, in front of the rings, facing up. The two CFL lights are off to the left and right. I'm holding the camera as close to directly above

I'd be curious what people think of my first shot. f5, 160, iso 200, at 24mm, SooC.

Dropbox - DSC5881_Rings.jpg

The problems I see with it and don't know how to fix are:

- White balance is off. The CFLs are supposedly 5500, but it still seems a little grey. I don't have a grey card (but am now getting one). Is there something I can do in the meantime?
- No matter how hard I try, there's always a bit of a reflection off the cardboard. Do I have to edit those out manually? Is there a way to avoid it?
- Are the shadows around the rings okay? Is that to be expected? It gives it perspective, but how do you determine the proper amount of shadows?
- Is there some rig I could build (or order in time for Monday) that would enable me to suspend the camera above the table, perpendicular to the product?

Thanks so much

 

[Derrel]

It is "okay", but the cross-shadowing is annoying to me...the two lights, one on each side is the issue...that's dull lighting, and in this case, annoys the eye. ONE, main light source, would look better. Two equal-powere, equal-distance lights, aimed at a subject from 45 degrees from each side: that si the recipe for copy lighting...it is un-appealing lighting. Try using just ONE large light source, and you'll immediately see the difference.

Overall, the shot is what one would expect from a low-cost import/export type of web-based business; not trying to denigrate your skills or the job you've managed to get, but this is not high-level product work, but it does pay money for being shot.

The shaodwoing around the rings is expected, and annoying (to me, at least). The "perspective" it gives is one of flatness...how much shadowing is determined by you and the client...I think this shadow pattern could be greatly improved by turning off the light on the right hand side.

Want the truth? Most people prefer main light hat enters from the LEFT, and high, and throws the shadow down, and to the 4 to 5 o'clock position. Period. We read left to right.we prefer higher 10- and 11 o'clock mian light origin points, in general, over under-lighting from low or from 9 o'clock.

Cardobard lustre....1)dulling spray... 2)flat paint 3) change the angle of light incidence. The angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection 4)Polarize the light sources with sheet film polarizing material 5)Polarize the camera lens with a CPL filter. Start at #5, and work backward thru the list.

Suspended camera? Two ladders, and a board. Ladder and a boom arm. Tripod and a boom arm. Boom stand and pipe-grip clamp with tripod head attached. TALL, home-built iron pipe tripod (tee-pee style, lashed together with wire at top, legs in board with holes as base). Any numer of ways to get the camera suspended. Two ladders and a long board is the easy. cheap handy way, and has height-adjustment options...top step, one step down, etc..

 

[gossamer]

It is "okay", but the cross-shadowing is annoying to me...the two lights, one on each side is the issue...that's dull lighting, and in this case, annoys the eye. ONE, main light source, would look better. Two equal-powere, equal-distance lights, aimed at a subject from 45 degrees from each side: that si the recipe for copy lighting...it is un-appealing lighting. Try using just ONE large light source, and you'll immediately see the difference.

Yes, just tried that. I placed the light with the umbrella on the left on top of the table in front of the rings, facing almost directly straight down. You can see the light is a little brighter at the top of the picture in the attached file. There definitely doesn't seem to be enough light now.

Overall, the shot is what one would expect from a low-cost import/export type of web-based business; not trying to denigrate your skills or the job you've managed to get, but this is not high-level product work, but it does pay money for being shot.

My thinking was that I would experiment with something more inexpensive as a starting point to get an idea of how it all works. I would love recommendations on the proper lighting to buy for something like this. I have the money to spend on the proper gear.

The shaodwoing around the rings is expected, and annoying (to me, at least). The "perspective" it gives is one of flatness...how much shadowing is determined by you and the client...I think this shadow pattern could be greatly improved by turning off the light on the right hand side.

This created very long shadows on the right. I don't believe it looked correct.

Want the truth? Most people prefer main light hat enters from the LEFT, and high, and throws the shadow down, and to the 4 to 5 o'clock position. Period. We read left to right.we prefer higher 10- and 11 o'clock mian light origin points, in general, over under-lighting from low or from 9 o'clock.

Yes, truth always. I can try that again. The 450W CFL just doesn't appear powerful enough for moving it too high above the rings.

Should I introduce my on-camera SB700?

Cardobard lustre....1)dulling spray... 2)flat paint 3) change the angle of light incidence. The angle of incidence equals the angle of reflection 4)Polarize the light sources with sheet film polarizing material 5)Polarize the camera lens with a CPL filter. Start at #5, and work backward thru the list.

I have a heliopan UV filter. I'd like to get the equivalent polarizer. Would this be it (for my 82mm 24-70 f2.8)? And how many stops of light do I lose?
Amazon.com : Heliopan 82mm Slim Circular Polarizer Filter (708280) with specialty Schott glass in floating brass ring : Camera Lens Polarizing Filters : Camera & Photo

Suspended camera? Two ladders, and a board. Ladder and a boom arm. Tripod and a boom arm. Boom stand and pipe-grip clamp with tripod head attached. TALL, home-built iron pipe tripod (tee-pee style, lashed together with wire at top, legs in board with holes as base). Any numer of ways to get the camera suspended. Two ladders and a long board is the easy. cheap handy way, and has height-adjustment options...top step, one step down, etc..

Yes, I also thought of this, but thought with also having the light source above the subject that it would get in the way and create shadows. I'll have to give this some more thought.

Thanks so much for your input. Always appreciate the real criticism.

 

[benhasajeep]

Ah, your taking pics of carded items (meant to hang). I would switch to hanging them with the lightest fishing line you can find. Set up your background as normal. Run a pole across the background (several feet forward). Can use a 2nd backdrop cross pole and 2 more stands. Or make something up. Use adjustable knots in the fishing line so you can adjust heights and hang the items from the pole. Then light them as normal. Also light the background. You will have no shadows and good quality pictures. If your doing multiple items like your sample. You can use tape, to tape items together so they stay aligned (hidden on back of course). If doing single items and they tend to turn. Tape additional line back of item to use to straighten it out.

 

[Derrel]

No, there is plenty of light now....but your umbrella is far too close to the set...the light fall-off is steep, because of the Inverse Square Law....you have the light TOO CLOSE to the subject....move the light farther away, and the rate of fall-off will be tremendously lessened, and it will look good. This is an issue many people find when doing close-ups...they get the lights in too close, where the rate of light fall-off in intensity is very steep over even very,very short distances on the set; move the light FARTHER away, and the rate of fall-off will even out, and it'll be super-easy to process the images with even lighting.

There is plenty of light if you just apply some processing tweaks...a Lightoom graduated filter, or a little bit of dodging on the areas you feel are too dark...simple stuff can improve this frame.

Overall, this is a MUCH-better image than the earlier one! So much more harmonious! But it needs different image processing than you applied, OR a different lighting technique that will minimize fall-off.

 

[gossamer]

Ah, your taking pics of carded items (meant to hang). I would switch to hanging them with the lightest fishing line you can find. Set up your background as normal. Run a pole across the background (several feet forward). Can use a 2nd backdrop cross pole and 2 more stands. Or make something up. Use adjustable knots in the fishing line so you can adjust heights and hang the items from the pole. Then light them as normal. Also light the background. You will have no shadows and good quality pictures. If your doing multiple items like your sample. You can use tape, to tape items together so they stay aligned (hidden on back of course). If doing single items and they tend to turn. Tape additional line back of item to use to straighten it out.

I don't think I can do it by hanging them. Some of them are in bags, and the product must be removed from the bags to avoid glare. Inside the bags are up to 20 individual pieces, like mini dog bones, etc.

 

[fmw]

As someone who does shots like this every day I'll provide a couple of comments. Flat lighting is most easily achieved with a light tent. They are cheap. Get one and light things as you have been lighting them. Two opposed flash heads is fine. The light tent will do a better job of spreading the light than your softbox. You can add a third head if you want some shadowing. The goal is to show a prospective customer what the product looks like. We aren't looking for beautiful lighting like we would with a portrait.

If you want a white background then you need to remove the mottled gray background you have now. I'll leave doing that to you and your photo editing software. As an alternative you can use colored a back ground. I handle it by using a frosted glass background that is lit from below and/or behind because it worked in the film days where we collected the light with transparency film rather than digital sensors. Yet another option is to separate product and background and light the background separately.

Good luck.

 

[gossamer]

As someone who does shots like this every day I'll provide a couple of comments. Flat lighting is most easily achieved with a light tent. They are cheap. Get one and light things as you have been lighting them. Two opposed flash heads is fine. The light tent will do a better job of spreading the light than your softbox. You can add a third head if you want some shadowing. The goal is to show a prospective customer what the product looks like. We aren't looking for beautiful lighting like we would with a portrait.

Do you mean something like this?
Amazon.com : Neewer 36x36 inch/90x90 cm Photo Studio Shooting Tent Light Cube Diffusion Soft Box Kit with 4 Colors Backdrops (Red Dark Blue Black White) for Photography : Photographic Lighting Diffusers : Camera & Photo
The products are of differing sizes, with some as long as 30" or so. Would I shoot from directly above, standing over it and putting the camera in the tent? Instead of flash heads, would the 450W CFLs I currently have suffice?

Is there a light tent you particularly like or use regularly?

Do we not want at least some level of shadows to give the product perspective?

If you want a white background then you need to remove the mottled gray background you have now. I'll leave doing that to you and your photo editing software. As an alternative you can use colored a back ground. I handle it by using a frosted glass background that is lit from below and/or behind because it worked in the film days where we collected the light with transparency film rather than digital sensors. Yet another option is to separate product and background and light the background separately.

Derrel also suggested I do a little tweaking in LR, but I'd like to avoid that as much as possible. I find there's definitely a difference between 1/125th and 1/160th in sharpness, perhaps because it's handheld, but it means changing ISO, and anything above 800 really isn't acceptable for me. Can definitely see the graininess.

I'm concerned with inconsistencies between one shot and the next based on my photoshop settings or other camera/light variables. What is the color of white that I want? Is 4400 too blue? Can I ask you guys to review these pictures? This is the result of my work today.

# rings at 4400
Dropbox - DSC5886_Balls_4400.jpg
# rings at 5500
Dropbox - DSC5886_Balls_5500.jpg
# pink animal
Dropbox - DSC5910_Pink.jpg
# snake
Dropbox - DSC5913_Snake.jpg
# tennis balls
Dropbox - DSC5918_TennisBalls.jpg
# rope toy
Dropbox - DSC5922_Rope.jpg

 

[benhasajeep]

Do you have a grey card? If you do, meter it, and white balance it. With everything in position. Then don't change the lights or settings or move equipment. Your set for the rest of the shoot.

 

[Solarflare]

- White balance is off. The CFLs are supposedly 5500, but it still seems a little grey.

Grey is exactly the same as white, just with less saturation. Thus if you see grey in places you want to see white, you want more exposure, not fix the white balance.

 

[fmw]

As someone who does shots like this every day I'll provide a couple of comments. Flat lighting is most easily achieved with a light tent. They are cheap. Get one and light things as you have been lighting them. Two opposed flash heads is fine. The light tent will do a better job of spreading the light than your softbox. You can add a third head if you want some shadowing. The goal is to show a prospective customer what the product looks like. We aren't looking for beautiful lighting like we would with a portrait.

Do you mean something like this?
Amazon.com : Neewer 36x36 inch/90x90 cm Photo Studio Shooting Tent Light Cube Diffusion Soft Box Kit with 4 Colors Backdrops (Red Dark Blue Black White) for Photography : Photographic Lighting Diffusers : Camera & Photo
The products are of differing sizes, with some as long as 30" or so. Would I shoot from directly above, standing over it and putting the camera in the tent? Instead of flash heads, would the 450W CFLs I currently have suffice?

Is there a light tent you particularly like or use regularly?

Yes something like that light tent will work well. You can shoot from anywhere. To shoot from the top you may need to cut a slit in the fabric. There is a door on the front so you can shoot from there. It is a very flexible approach.

If you plan to do this regularly you want to use flash. You can buy a pair of monolights for reasonable prices on the internet. Then you can handhold at f16 or f22 and not worry about color temp or motion blur or inadequate depth of field. We all use flash - always.

Do we not want at least some level of shadows to give the product perspective?

If you want to. Most catalog shots are made with flat lighting. You can put different power levels on the flash heads or add a third light.

If you want a white background then you need to remove the mottled gray background you have now. I'll leave doing that to you and your photo editing software. As an alternative you can use colored a back ground. I handle it by using a frosted glass background that is lit from below and/or behind because it worked in the film days where we collected the light with transparency film rather than digital sensors. Yet another option is to separate product and background and light the background separately.

Derrel also suggested I do a little tweaking in LR, but I'd like to avoid that as much as possible. I find there's definitely a difference between 1/125th and 1/160th in sharpness, perhaps because it's handheld, but it means changing ISO, and anything above 800 really isn't acceptable for me. Can definitely see the graininess.

Avoiding post process is pretty hard to do unless you have a setup like I described above. I generally just have to straighten, fix white point and crop. Then move on to the next one. Use low ISO for all studio shots. ISO 100 or 200. The flash heads will allow you to do this. Back to flash heads again.

I'm concerned with inconsistencies between one shot and the next based on my photoshop settings or other camera/light variables. What is the color of white that I want? Is 4400 too blue? Can I ask you guys to review these pictures? This is the result of my work today.



# rings at 4400
Dropbox - DSC5886_Balls_4400.jpg
# rings at 5500
Dropbox - DSC5886_Balls_5500.jpg
# pink animal
Dropbox - DSC5910_Pink.jpg
# snake
Dropbox - DSC5913_Snake.jpg
# tennis balls
Dropbox - DSC5918_TennisBalls.jpg
# rope toy
Dropbox - DSC5922_Rope.jpg

White is white. Color temperature is a matter of the light source. You can adjust that easily in your camera by using a shot of your white background. Go shopping for a pair of monolights. You don't need a complicated set. You need a couple of lights, a couple of stands and a way to trigger them. You can use a cord that attaches your hot shoe to one of the lights or you can use a wireless trigger which leaves you unconnected to the lights. I use a cheap wireless trigger made by Godox that I bought cheaply on Amazon.

 

[gossamer]

I

As someone who does shots like this every day I'll provide a couple of comments. Flat lighting is most easily achieved with a light tent. They are cheap. Get one and light things as you have been lighting them. Two opposed flash heads is fine. The light tent will do a better job of spreading the light than your softbox. You can add a third head if you want some shadowing. The goal is to show a prospective customer what the product looks like. We aren't looking for beautiful lighting like we would with a portrait.

Do you mean something like this?
Amazon.com : Neewer 36x36 inch/90x90 cm Photo Studio Shooting Tent Light Cube Diffusion Soft Box Kit with 4 Colors Backdrops (Red Dark Blue Black White) for Photography : Photographic Lighting Diffusers : Camera & Photo
The products are of differing sizes, with some as long as 30" or so. Would I shoot from directly above, standing over it and putting the camera in the tent? Instead of flash heads, would the 450W CFLs I currently have suffice?

Is there a light tent you particularly like or use regularly?

Yes something like that light tent will work well. You can shoot from anywhere. To shoot from the top you may need to cut a slit in the fabric. There is a door on the front so you can shoot from there. It is a very flexible approach.

For the larger items, it occurred to me that I had to stand further above the subject because I have a 24mm lens on a crop sensor. I couldn't fit the whole image in the frame. Will this be a problem?

Maybe I should plan to be able to do it *without* the light tent.

If you plan to do this regularly you want to use flash. You can buy a pair of monolights for reasonable prices on the internet. Then you can handhold at f16 or f22 and not worry about color temp or motion blur or inadequate depth of field. We all use flash - always.

That's what I want. There is no way I could go above f5 and below ISO500 with the lights I have.

If you want to. Most catalog shots are made with flat lighting. You can put different power levels on the flash heads or add a third light.

That sounds like what I want to do.

Avoiding post process is pretty hard to do unless you have a setup like I described above. I generally just have to straighten, fix white point and crop. Then move on to the next one. Use low ISO for all studio shots. ISO 100 or 200. The flash heads will allow you to do this. Back to flash heads again.

That's very helpful advice. Would you help me pick out lights?

What kind of setup would I need to do this without a light tent? I'd like to be able to place the products on a white background on a tabletop and shoot from above, or a white background laying on the floor.

Would something like two of these be ideal, with built-in wifi, iTTL support, exposure compensation, high-speed sync...
Amazon.com : Godox AD200 200Ws 2.4G TTL Flash Strobe 1/8000 HSS Cordless Monolight with 2900mAh Lithimu Battery and Bare Bulb/Speedlite Fresnel Flash Head to Cover 500 Full Power Shots and Recycle In 0.01-2.1 Sec : Camera & Photo

Is $300 what you consider inexpensive but not a cheap piece of junk?

If I don't use a light tent, what kind of modifier what I use? An umbrella? Softbox?

I was also thinking of a set of Manfrotto 1004BAC light stand. I'd also like to be able to use this setup for portraits someday soon, so I think sturdy light stands for use outdoors would be a good idea.

White is white. Color temperature is a matter of the light source. You can adjust that easily in your camera by using a shot of your white background.

I've just ordered a grey card and will do that.

Go shopping for a pair of monolights. You don't need a complicated set. You need a couple of lights, a couple of stands and a way to trigger them. You can use a cord that attaches your hot shoe to one of the lights or you can use a wireless trigger which leaves you unconnected to the lights. I use a cheap wireless trigger made by Godox that I bought cheaply on Amazon.

This is where I could really use some help from your experience. There are a ton of options and vendors. At first I was thinking of just buying two more SB700s, but they don't seem to have the flexibility of others with built-in wifi and the level of power as some of the others.

This also looks interesting for holding the camera for shooting from above:
Amazon.com : Manfrotto 420B 3- Section Combi- Boom Stand with Sand Bag - Replaces 3397, 3397B (Black) : Photographic Lighting Booms And Stands : Camera & Photo

Is 400Wx3 enough light?
Amazon.com : Neewer 1200W(400W x 3)Professional Photography Studio Strobe Flash Light Monolight Lighting Kit for Portrait Photography, Studio and Video Shoots( MT-400AM) : Camera & Photo

 

[fmw]

Maybe I should plan to be able to do it *without* the light tent.

The light tent is the way to go for any reasonable level of efficiency. I shoot products that are 2 feet long from the front of the light tent with a 50mm macro lens on a crop sensor. You aren't going to talk me out of the light tent.

What kind of setup would I need to do this without a light tent? I'd like to be able to place the products on a white background on a tabletop and shoot from above, or a white background laying on the floor.

In your price range something like this.
Again, this is for a light tent. If you can't use the light tent then you do what you need to do. A background on the floor is as good as anything. What you would need depends on the lights and the amount of room you have for shooting.

Would something like two of these be ideal, with built-in wifi, iTTL support, exposure compensation, high-speed sync...
Amazon.com : Godox AD200 200Ws 2.4G TTL Flash Strobe 1/8000 HSS Cordless Monolight with 2900mAh Lithimu Battery and Bare Bulb/Speedlite Fresnel Flash Head to Cover 500 Full Power Shots and Recycle In 0.01-2.1 Sec : Camera & Photo

https://www.amazon.com/Godox-AD200-Cordless-Monolight-Speedlite/dp/B06X1FBC3F

I don't recommend battery powered lights. You have electrical service in the studio. Use it. Any monolight can be wireless by adding a wireless trigger. They aren't expensive.

Is $300 what you consider inexpensive but not a cheap piece of junk?

I don't know. My monolights were made in England were a couple thousand dollars 25 years ago. Hard to say what you would get with a cheap Chinese setup like these. The customer reviews would be more valuable than my comments since I have no personal experience with them.

If I don't use a light tent, what kind of modifier what I use? An umbrella? Softbox?

Yes, or nothing. Remember we aren't going for dramatic, artistic lighting. You want the prospective customer to see exactly what it looks like without any enhancement.

I was also thinking of a set of Manfrotto 1004BAC light stand. I'd also like to be able to use this setup for portraits someday soon, so I think sturdy light stands for use outdoors would be a good idea.

The set I suggested includes stands. The system isn't designed for outdoor use. That is what portable flash units like your Nikon and reflectors are for.

White is white. Color temperature is a matter of the light source. You can adjust that easily in your camera by using a shot of your white background.

I've just ordered a grey card and will do that.

This is where I could really use some help from your experience. There are a ton of options and vendors. At first I was thinking of just buying two more SB700s, but they don't seem to have the flexibility of others with built-in wifi and the level of power as some of the others.

That is amateurish, inefficient and more expensive. I can't imagine why you would use Wifi.

Is 400Wx3 enough light?
Amazon.com : Neewer 1200W(400W x 3)Professional Photography Studio Strobe Flash Light Monolight Lighting Kit for Portrait Photography, Studio and Video Shoots( MT-400AM) : Camera & Photo

I don't know. 400 watt SECONDS would be more than enough. Perhaps too much. I have no idea how much output these would have. I'm trying to get you to do your product photography in a professional manner and you seem dead set on doing it the amateur way. I don't know how much product photography you need to do. I've done 100's of thousands of them and I would go nuts fussing with light boxes and Wifi. Simple and effective is the way to go. If you are going to do them occasionally then it doesn't matter what you do as long as it gets the job done. Good luck.

 

[gossamer]

Maybe I should plan to be able to do it *without* the light tent.

The light tent is the way to go for any reasonable level of efficiency. I shoot products that are 2 feet long from the front of the light tent with a 50mm macro lens on a crop sensor. You aren't going to talk me out of the light tent.

What kind of setup would I need to do this without a light tent? I'd like to be able to place the products on a white background on a tabletop and shoot from above, or a white background laying on the floor.

In your price range something like this.
Again, this is for a light tent. If you can't use the light tent then you do what you need to do. A background on the floor is as good as anything. What you would need depends on the lights and the amount of room you have for shooting.

I want what works best without spending too much. I don't want cheap Chinese stuff if it's not going to work properly. I don't have enough experience to know what works best. This looks to be better and something I think I could afford:
Impact VC-500WLN 3-500Ws Digital Monolight VC-500WL3KN B&H Photo

I still don't understand why one would use a softbox in place of an umbrella or vice-versa. And how do you determine what size modifier should be used? And with white inside or reflective?

Would something like two of these be ideal, with built-in wifi, iTTL support, exposure compensation, high-speed sync...
Amazon.com : Godox AD200 200Ws 2.4G TTL Flash Strobe 1/8000 HSS Cordless Monolight with 2900mAh Lithimu Battery and Bare Bulb/Speedlite Fresnel Flash Head to Cover 500 Full Power Shots and Recycle In 0.01-2.1 Sec : Camera & Photo

I don't recommend battery powered lights. You have electrical service in the studio. Use it. Any monolight can be wireless by adding a wireless trigger. They aren't expensive.

[/quote]
I wish I had a studio This is kitchen table / living room floor stuff.

Is $300 what you consider inexpensive but not a cheap piece of junk?

I don't know. My monolights were made in England were a couple thousand dollars 25 years ago. Hard to say what you would get with a cheap Chinese setup like these. The customer reviews would be more valuable than my comments since I have no personal experience with them.

I don't have that kind of money starting out, but I don't want to buy junk.

If I don't use a light tent, what kind of modifier what I use? An umbrella? Softbox?

Yes, or nothing. Remember we aren't going for dramatic, artistic lighting. You want the prospective customer to see exactly what it looks like without any enhancement.

That's very helpful.

I was also thinking of a set of Manfrotto 1004BAC light stand. I'd also like to be able to use this setup for portraits someday soon, so I think sturdy light stands for use outdoors would be a good idea.

The set I suggested includes stands. The system isn't designed for outdoor use. That is what portable flash units like your Nikon and reflectors are for.[/quote]
As an amateur, I wish there was something more universal.

This is where I could really use some help from your experience. There are a ton of options and vendors. At first I was thinking of just buying two more SB700s, but they don't seem to have the flexibility of others with built-in wifi and the level of power as some of the others.

That is amateurish, inefficient and more expensive. I can't imagine why you would use Wifi.

I see that now, thanks. Regarding wifi, I was referring to the wireless transmitter/receiver that's used to trigger them from the camera.

Is 400Wx3 enough light?
Amazon.com : Neewer 1200W(400W x 3)Professional Photography Studio Strobe Flash Light Monolight Lighting Kit for Portrait Photography, Studio and Video Shoots( MT-400AM) : Camera & Photo

I don't know. 400 watt SECONDS would be more than enough. Perhaps too much. I have no idea how much output these would have. I'm trying to get you to do your product photography in a professional manner and you seem dead set on doing it the amateur way. I don't know how much product photography you need to do. I've done 100's of thousands of them and I would go nuts fussing with light boxes and Wifi. Simple and effective is the way to go. If you are going to do them occasionally then it doesn't matter what you do as long as it gets the job done. Good luck.

[/quote]

I really don't want to do it the amateur way - I just don't know what the proper way is, and interested in using your recommendations.

I also don't know how much product photography I'll be doing, but I'm certainly hoping for more

I do know that I'll be doing more outdoor portraiture. Would I be better served by buying better light stands to use with the monolights so they can also be used outdoors with a set of SB700s?

 

[fmw]

Maybe I should plan to be able to do it *without* the light tent.

The light tent is the way to go for any reasonable level of efficiency. I shoot products that are 2 feet long from the front of the light tent with a 50mm macro lens on a crop sensor. You aren't going to talk me out of the light tent.

What kind of setup would I need to do this without a light tent? I'd like to be able to place the products on a white background on a tabletop and shoot from above, or a white background laying on the floor.

In your price range something like this.
Again, this is for a light tent. If you can't use the light tent then you do what you need to do. A background on the floor is as good as anything. What you would need depends on the lights and the amount of room you have for shooting.

I want what works best without spending too much. I don't want cheap Chinese stuff if it's not going to work properly. I don't have enough experience to know what works best. This looks to be better and something I think I could afford:
Impact VC-500WLN 3-500Ws Digital Monolight VC-500WL3KN B&H Photo

I still don't understand why one would use a softbox in place of an umbrella or vice-versa. And how do you determine what size modifier should be used? And with white inside or reflective?

Would something like two of these be ideal, with built-in wifi, iTTL support, exposure compensation, high-speed sync...
Amazon.com : Godox AD200 200Ws 2.4G TTL Flash Strobe 1/8000 HSS Cordless Monolight with 2900mAh Lithimu Battery and Bare Bulb/Speedlite Fresnel Flash Head to Cover 500 Full Power Shots and Recycle In 0.01-2.1 Sec : Camera & Photo

I don't recommend battery powered lights. You have electrical service in the studio. Use it. Any monolight can be wireless by adding a wireless trigger. They aren't expensive.

I wish I had a studio This is kitchen table / living room floor stuff.

Is $300 what you consider inexpensive but not a cheap piece of junk?

I don't know. My monolights were made in England were a couple thousand dollars 25 years ago. Hard to say what you would get with a cheap Chinese setup like these. The customer reviews would be more valuable than my comments since I have no personal experience with them.

I don't have that kind of money starting out, but I don't want to buy junk.

If I don't use a light tent, what kind of modifier what I use? An umbrella? Softbox?

Yes, or nothing. Remember we aren't going for dramatic, artistic lighting. You want the prospective customer to see exactly what it looks like without any enhancement.

That's very helpful.

I was also thinking of a set of Manfrotto 1004BAC light stand. I'd also like to be able to use this setup for portraits someday soon, so I think sturdy light stands for use outdoors would be a good idea.

The set I suggested includes stands. The system isn't designed for outdoor use. That is what portable flash units like your Nikon and reflectors are for.[/quote]
As an amateur, I wish there was something more universal.

This is where I could really use some help from your experience. There are a ton of options and vendors. At first I was thinking of just buying two more SB700s, but they don't seem to have the flexibility of others with built-in wifi and the level of power as some of the others.

That is amateurish, inefficient and more expensive. I can't imagine why you would use Wifi.

I see that now, thanks. Regarding wifi, I was referring to the wireless transmitter/receiver that's used to trigger them from the camera.

Is 400Wx3 enough light?
Amazon.com : Neewer 1200W(400W x 3)Professional Photography Studio Strobe Flash Light Monolight Lighting Kit for Portrait Photography, Studio and Video Shoots( MT-400AM) : Camera & Photo

I don't know. 400 watt SECONDS would be more than enough. Perhaps too much. I have no idea how much output these would have. I'm trying to get you to do your product photography in a professional manner and you seem dead set on doing it the amateur way. I don't know how much product photography you need to do. I've done 100's of thousands of them and I would go nuts fussing with light boxes and Wifi. Simple and effective is the way to go. If you are going to do them occasionally then it doesn't matter what you do as long as it gets the job done. Good luck.

[/quote]

I really don't want to do it the amateur way - I just don't know what the proper way is, and interested in using your recommendations.

I also don't know how much product photography I'll be doing, but I'm certainly hoping for more

I do know that I'll be doing more outdoor portraiture. Would I be better served by buying better light stands to use with the monolights so they can also be used outdoors with a set of SB700s?[/QUOTE]

I think I have answered those things already. At this point I'll leave it up to you. I'm not trying to sell you anything or talk you into anything. Do whatever you think is best for you.