Pros Opinion on a Newbie...

I absolutely get your point but some were directed towards me... And being someone in a simular boat as amature photographer (not nessisarily a newbie). I felt an impulse to kind of speak up. Especially when the tone of the messages turned ugly. I guess was just a breaking point because I've watched newbie after newbie get on here and ask a question that a pro feels is easy and stupid and they express that to the newbie and follow it up with a "go read your freakin manual." This section is for beginners so that's who is going to post on here. If the question sounds stupid then just don't answer. If a newbie gets on talking about how they're going to start doing $40 portraits and $100 to make some extra money. You can honestly tell them your opinion without being rude and tear somone down. "You don't even know how to properly light your pictures, your work is horrible, etc..." Instead you can tell them that it's risky doing something like this... tell them why. I'm just saying show some tact. And also realize that all newbies aren't cut from the same cloth... There's some who pick up the camera thinking oooh I can make a quick buck. Others have passion for photography enough where they're going to study it. I've seen newbie pictures who are AMAZING. When I was pregnant with my son I went to Sears to take a quick maternity pic because I was 9 months and running out of time. It was a last minute thing because had been putting it off. I swear that the pic I got from them... mann I've taken pictures wayy better. However, they're considered to be pros though. Get what I'm saying? Instead of putting all newbies in this box and putting all of them down... I think the focus should've been the question at hand. Not saying that all newbies produce crappy pics and if you end up with a good one, you were just lucky. I mean, come on.

You have been around here a little less time than I have on this message board and I have to say that the statement highlighted couldnt be more wrong. I dont know if its just the threads you are going in or what but for the most part what I see is useful advice being given out by most of the posters in this forum. Sure there are a couple of the its my opinion like it or not I am going to be flat out honest even if it is what most would consider out of line. As for the read the freaking manual comment I have seen numberous people ask questions reagarding something that would have taken them 30 seconds to look up in a manual. People need to help themselves too.

I have been a member of 5 or 6 different photography forums since getting into photography a couple of years ago. Of all of the forums that I have belonged to this is by far one of the most friendly and helpful forums out there. There are from time to time instances where things get a little out of line but they are usually delt with by the moderators pretty quickly.

When I post my pictures on this or any other forum or image hosting site I want people to be honest about what they like and dislike about a shot of mine. Is everyone going to have the same exact opinion of a shot? Hell no! I wouldnt expect anything less. I have seen some shots that are great, amazing, ordinary, snapshots, down to the "WTF are you thinking posting that?" category. If you are going to let someone elses comments throw you off and chase you out of a forum or away from a hobby its not something you love. The first forum I was a member of there was one person in particular that always had something negative to say to my photos. It got to the point where it became my motivation to learn and improve. I finally felt like I was doing something right when that person said "Simply Amazing" to one of my shots. It took a hell of a lot of getting beat up and feeling belittled to get to that point but damn did it feel good when it happened.

As I go back through my flickr I see a lot of shots that I thought were great at the time and now look at them and go WTF? Its a natural progression and everyone that sticks with the hobby will go through it.
I would invite you and anyone else to go through my flickr or any of the posts I have made here and see the progression that has taken place and comment on the images you like and dislike. Any feedback is welcome.
 
Startup photographers do not "devalue" the profession.

Though some will (and have) argued that the devalue the profession, I don't believe they do. They devalue the market. The profession will recover one way or another or adapt. I just don't see the point in lending a hand in obliterating the market.

And nowhere did I claim that a $200 photographer is a threat to a $4000/$6000 photographer. I very specifically set my limits to $2K in my examples because, based on a rather lengthy survey including meeting with some of the professionals in the area, the $2K mark seemed to be around the base level for, in my subjective assessment, wedding packages that a professional who makes his living at wedding photography should be asking (quality of images, service before, duration of shoot, extras, included prints, etc).

Like many professions, the top is going to continue to be in demand and be able to claim their going price. This represents only the top 5% at most.

But, then again, I'm a do-whatever-you-damn-well-please kinda guy. Chances are likely I'm not going to be competing directly with most of the advertise-in-traditional-channels photographers so this doesn't bother me in the slightest. And I'm all about making people happy. I just like making sure that if said customer ever gets a better palate and artistic sense, he or she is still happy.

But the overarching theme for this thread is that you should know what you're getting into. You're also doing yourself a favor in the long run by waiting until you can claim a higher market value with your product than to start out working at a near loss. (So the $200 wedding example -- Consultation, 6 hours of shooting, 12-20 (or more) hours in post, the shutter wear, travel, proofs, prints, reprints -- you're working for less than minimum wage at that point.)

On other hand, "pros" who have wedding gigs coming up and are asking basic technique questions, are scary.

Agreed. This is by far the most horrifying.
 
I dont know if its just the threads you are going in or what but for the most part what I see is useful advice being given out by most of the posters in this forum.

Sometimes read the manual is the best advice, though!!! Seriously. I try to give page numbers where I can, though, even if I have to look through eewie Nikon PDF manuals. :lol:
 
By the same reasoning, a client of the $4k/$6k will not consider using the $200 photographer. Clients of the $200 photographer can not afford to get into the $4k+ range.

Startup photographers do not "devalue" the profession. They offer a needed service because not everyone can afford to spend a couple grand on photographs. On other hand, "pros" who have wedding gigs coming up and are asking basic technique questions, are scary.

I guess maybe I haven't articulated what I've been trying to say but this kind of wraps it up in a nutshell. A person who is looking for some pictures to throw up on their myspace... who has between $40-$60 to spend. You want us to refer them to you pros? Yes accepting the $40 could lead to the person being pissed off at the results. But then again before I give pics to anyone I have my lap top for them to tell me if they like what they're about to get on a cd first. If they don't like it fine. I also keep model releases with me too. I don't shoot anyone without having them sign that, along with a contract. But I've never run into any of these problems... and if someone wants to sue me for $40 plus court cost...That's fine lol.
 
I would suggest we all jump off this train before it flies off the bridge. I think it was a pretty constructive conversation up to the point where OP took offence at... I'm not sure what. Clearly most of us are scratching our heads over it. Just seems a shame to keep letting it spiral.

Granted, it's certainly more entertaining reading that way. :)
 
Accepting $40 for a few myspace profile pics is a clear case of acceptable market value! :) Even some of the well-established pros in this area will do a quick studio stop by for some high quality web-sized snaps for that much. Hell, that's easy money right there. (One's got a headshot factory that their photo assistants shoot for like $19 for like 2 poses. you get the web sized digital file but they keep printing rights, it's kinda a neat niche.)

The reason we went down the road we did is your original post mentioned 'pictures' as well as very difficult events, so it seems like 'wrapping it up in a nutshell' left a few things outside the shell. I've ever confidence you'll take away what you need to from this thread, though. There've been some insightful replies (esp the shorter ones, I'm yappy).
 
You have been around here a little less time than I have on this message board and I have to say that the statement highlighted couldnt be more wrong. I dont know if its just the threads you are going in or what but for the most part what I see is useful advice being given out by most of the posters in this forum. Sure there are a couple of the its my opinion like it or not I am going to be flat out honest even if it is what most would consider out of line. As for the read the freaking manual comment I have seen numberous people ask questions reagarding something that would have taken them 30 seconds to look up in a manual. People need to help themselves too.

I have been a member of 5 or 6 different photography forums since getting into photography a couple of years ago. Of all of the forums that I have belonged to this is by far one of the most friendly and helpful forums out there. There are from time to time instances where things get a little out of line but they are usually delt with by the moderators pretty quickly.

When I post my pictures on this or any other forum or image hosting site I want people to be honest about what they like and dislike about a shot of mine. Is everyone going to have the same exact opinion of a shot? Hell no! I wouldnt expect anything less. I have seen some shots that are great, amazing, ordinary, snapshots, down to the "WTF are you thinking posting that?" category. If you are going to let someone elses comments throw you off and chase you out of a forum or away from a hobby its not something you love. The first forum I was a member of there was one person in particular that always had something negative to say to my photos. It got to the point where it became my motivation to learn and improve. I finally felt like I was doing something right when that person said "Simply Amazing" to one of my shots. It took a hell of a lot of getting beat up and feeling belittled to get to that point but damn did it feel good when it happened.

As I go back through my flickr I see a lot of shots that I thought were great at the time and now look at them and go WTF? Its a natural progression and everyone that sticks with the hobby will go through it.
I would invite you and anyone else to go through my flickr or any of the posts I have made here and see the progression that has taken place and comment on the images you like and dislike. Any feedback is welcome.

I have posted quite a few pics on here and I've never gotten offended about feedback that I've gotten. That's the purpose of posting. I welcome it. I actually take every piece of advice given and look into trying to apply the suggestions. Now when someone tells me as a grown woman, mother and wife trying to support her family... what I do or don't have any business doing... That's when I have problem. Especially not knowing details. I welcome all comments... and I'm actually having a pretty good day. Just hanging out with my son today. Any distress or anger you may have felt from my messages... have just been a tad bit of sarcasm and maybe a little bit of annoyance. But I'm good.
 
This is so much more civil than most similar ones, you've got to admit.
We can fix that if you would like
evillaugh.gif
 
I would suggest we all jump off this train before it flies off the bridge. I think it was a pretty constructive conversation up to the point where OP took offence at... I'm not sure what. Clearly most of us are scratching our heads over it. Just seems a shame to keep letting it spiral.

Granted, it's certainly more entertaining reading that way. :)

No I'm good. Actually me and my son are having fun over here looking at all the pictures. :lol:
 

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