"Pros" #Spoofers#nincompoops

[BananaRepublic]

I was at a horse trials event last weekend, it was my first time at one so I wasn't entirely sure what to expect. Anyway I spent a large part of the day there and needles to say there were paid photographers there, which I had no issue with it as was a big event.

Some knew there trade and others where clearly hired goons and where obnoxious.

Notice the tripod on the left, this was a position that two fellas choose to take manly due to the hoarding in the background.
1

This is roughly what they were getting, unless you went very tight you got the parts of the ambulance in the background and they were using 70,200s in a standing position. I briefly stood were one fella was and conformed this and there was over 400 horses on the day.
2

Bare in mind they were hours in this spot and defended viciously with dogs an grenades. I came back later on in the day and tried a different angle. When they saw me they deliberately moved in front and when I left they returned to where they were.
3

 

[tirediron]

Ummm... okay?

The tripod in the first image looks like a good location; the light is right, and there seems to be a bit of a left-hand turn, so the horse will be facing toward the photographer.. I've shot a few horse events and generally I try and concentrate on the expressions of the horse and rider; that ambulance wouldn't bother me a bit. Shooting with a large aperture for shallow DoF and very tight on the horse & rider it would be a non-issue. As for the photographers blocking your view... well, there are Richards everywhere!

 

[Gary A.]

There are a-holes everywhere and some of them have cameras.

 

[Alfiedog]

I do a lot of horse events (UK based), purely as a visitor/amateur and have had this happen to me regularly. At one event a "pro" actually physically barged me out of the way claiming I was in "his" spot: at another I had the resident "pro" in my face yelling obscenities - this was at an event which I was attending specifically to photograph a friend who was competing, at their request. It happens unfortunately.

On the other hand, I am the "official" pro at events run by a local riding club and attend their events specifically at their request to take shots of the action. It can be pretty annoying when someone walks across your line of sight or gets in your way when you're doing your best to capture the best shots of what's going on. But having said that, a polite smile and excuse me, or just taking a step sideways to avoid them works for me. No need to be obnoxious about it.

I now generally try to find my own spot and get an original take on the action. Many of these so called professionals are engaged by the event and have the photo rights to action shots which they then try to sell to the competitors - sometimes on the day and sometimes after the event from proofs on a web site. As a rider myself, and with many friends who compete in this type of event, I know that the images are popular with people as mementoes of the day, although sometimes the quality is questionable. Clearly, these people see anyone else at an event who is using any type of decent gear as a threat to their sales, hence their efforts to be as obstructive as possible. As Gary A. has said above, they're everywhere, sadly.

 

[Overread]

Thankfully the pros I've met at events were at the opposite end of the scale. They were either shooting in set spots (often good and beyond the public barrier) and just didn't care that I was there at all; or they were chatty and engaging when there was a lull in the activity (which in honestly can be a rare few moments unless you're shooting side by side since at many horse events they just keep going on and on and on and you're lucky if there's a lunchbreak - seriously if you pro-shoot a busy horse event it can be a very full day of work).

Sometimes photographers (pro/not pro) can move into each others line of sight without realising it. Heck we've ALL done it. You get into that little world behind the camera lens and you move a bit for a better angle, you've no time to look back and worry if its blocking another persons view; you just know that one inch, no two inches to the left and its perfect!
So we've all done that without intending to at all.


And yeah you then get the minority (that stick in the mind) who do make things a bad experience; who do cause trouble or get aggressive etc... Or are passive aggressive. Best thing is just to move on and not dwell on it; let them live in their world and you worry about finding your fun without getting into combat with them or slinging mud back (in a mud fight no one walks away clean

 

[BananaRepublic]

I didn't overly care what they did really I just found it a bit pathetic that this was done, and on purpose to. Yes on the day they were on the job but it made me laugh that both of them clearly didn't like the position as they were almost diving out of they way at the last minute.

One photographer friend of mine whos work is well known and sought after amongst the best riders in Europe told me on the day that they do exactly the same to him. Also riders could purchase a video of their run through the course on the day. This is not unusual across many sports and it was done by placing camcorders on tripods at key points along the track, however what I did find odd was that while each recorder was covered from the elements the external memory cards which stored the data weren't.

 

[StevenW]

I've photographed a fair number of horse events as well. Nowadays since everyone is a photographer we're seeing the gamut of human behavior in people holding cameras. There are lousy pros and amateurs. Much as I love working horse shows it is difficult to be the Official Photographer with any expectation. No manager is ever going to tell his millionaire client not to take photos with his insanely expensive rig, so barn dads are going to be there. There is so much real estate and most times events open to the public, so hacks are easily concealed; besides, staff is busy so being the photographer police isn't a priority. Usually there is a policy that taking photos for sale is prohibited except by the contracted photographers, that's only eye salve. Folks who take photos and give them away are only selling them for zero cost.

I had to leave the business during the economy downturn. We lost too much volume and far too many people who became self employed photographers took up horse shows as their specialty. I'm working for another pro wrapping up a four week show. There are some indications that there could be a rebound. I hope so. I miss it.

 

[Overread]

Folks who take photos and give them away are only selling them for zero cos

Was talking to a pro a while back and they said they wish more amateurs would realise the value of their photography. Giving away photos at such an even only devalues the product and hurts the pro even if there is no pro covering that specific event. His argument was if you're going to give them away at least charge a fair standard market rate and either keep it or stick it in a donation box or something.
At least then you don't devalue the pros work.

Personally I've shot at smaller shows and always asked for permission before turning up to ensure that I don't step on the toes of the pro - at bigger events I check their online policy and might ask if there isn't one posted; though in general much bigger events often have larger crowds and more general hobby photographers.

 

[StevenW]

Was talking to a pro a while back and they said they wish more amateurs would realise the value of their photography. Giving away photos at such an even only devalues the product and hurts the pro even if there is no pro covering that specific event. His argument was if you're going to give them away at least charge a fair standard market rate and either keep it or stick it in a donation box or something.
At least then you don't devalue the pros work.

Personally I've shot at smaller shows and always asked for permission before turning up to ensure that I don't step on the toes of the pro - at bigger events I check their online policy and might ask if there isn't one posted; though in general much bigger events often have larger crowds and more general hobby photographers.

Most horse shows have turned into free-for-all events. Average Joe doesn't realize the damage done by giving away the photos and most don't see the unfair competition it poses. The official photographer not only is photographing action for the exhibitors he's under agreement to provide coverage for all the exhibitors and usually provides the management with both action and posed shots along with win shots and award presentations. The OP is also required to have insurance and sometimes has to include the show management as second loss payee. Each person who drops by the rail to only shoot their friends or relatives chips away at the photographers potential income.

One reason I've not shot a show in two years is they are simply not profitable. Where there is no demand there needs to be no supply. It's nothing emotional just factual. I'm surprised that there are still as many wedding professionals as there are. I know that's getting to be a hard sell.

 

[chuasam]

My GF is an Equestrian Photographer. I can attest to what you say being true.
When she first started out, the local "pro" (note the quotation marks) yelled at her and demanded that all non official photographers leave HIS territory. He said that these learners are like setting up a stall offering Free Coffee next to a Starbucks. She wasn't trying to sell photos, she just wanted the practice back then. She wasn't even giving away photos.

She got mad. She got better. She came back to the same venue a couple of years later with a badge that read "Fédération Equestre Internationale Photographer" She got herself hired by the governing body to shoot in the venue and not be bothered by such fools. The local pro meanwhile complained bitterly but to no avail. Clients just weren't buying his work. His timing was often off, the backgrounds were cluttered, his angles were...well he stood right in the middle of the ring and tried to shoot every jump instead of moving around for the best spot.

You're right...amateurs should learn the value of their work. At the same time, Pros should ditch clients who prefer to hire the dilettante crowd. Recently a well known equestrian equipment brand organised a shoot and paid the horse and owner in merchandise...I wonder if they paid the photographer in gear and exposure too.

If you're going to shoot your friend, that's fine. If you're there on special commission from the rider (as she often is) that's fine because the client wanted a very specific photographer to do the job. If they're showing up and shooting everyone and then trying to sell and undercut the official photographer...that's so not cool. If you're paying the venue for access, that payment also covers them protecting you.

To the OP, the behavior that you observed is not that of the top pros. These are just the insecure local photographers who can't sell on the basis of their work and have to find ways to sabotage the competition.

 

[pendennis]

Nothing new under the sun.

Back in the 70's, a friend and I used to photograph race cars; sprints, midgets, outlaws, etc. At one of the tracks, a 1/2 mile high bank oval, there wasn't really a bad spot in the infield for catching the action. But, no matter where we set up, there were the "pros" who insisted on being in our line of sight. We were using rather long lenses for the time, 300mm f/4.5 Nikkors, but those morons who were shooting longer Nikkors and Canons, would invariably "hog" the scenery. However, as with everything else, timing is everything. They were using motor-driven Nikons and F250 magazines, and still missed a lot of shots.

 

[chuasam]

I didn't overly care what they did really I just found it a bit pathetic that this was done, and on purpose to. Yes on the day they were on the job but it made me laugh that both of them clearly didn't like the position as they were almost diving out of they way at the last minute.

One photographer friend of mine whos work is well known and sought after amongst the best riders in Europe told me on the day that they do exactly the same to him. Also riders could purchase a video of their run through the course on the day. This is not unusual across many sports and it was done by placing camcorders on tripods at key points along the track, however what I did find odd was that while each recorder was covered from the elements the external memory cards which stored the data weren't.

Think of it as a challenge to get even better.
Those so called pros pushed her to work harder.
Since then she’s shot for H&M’s equestrian clothing line, FEI, and several National Equestrian teams, including Team Australia at the World Equestrian Games in North Carolina next month.

Meanwhile those she left behind are still bitterly complaining about newbies on their turf.