Question regarding giving/getting photo credit

12sndsgood · Aug 2, 2012

well sounds like he has showed talking to him won't do a bit of good. sucks a layer may cost, but this where you have pretty good proof you may get one to pick it up. if he did it to you chances are he's done it to someone else. guys like this need ratted out big time. i'd be interested to know who it is and what company for my own curiosity. i'm getting into the local drifting scene here in indy.

PNWSGM · Aug 2, 2012

12sndsgood said:
well sounds like he has showed talking to him won't do a bit of good. sucks a layer may cost, but this where you have pretty good proof you may get one to pick it up. if he did it to you chances are he's done it to someone else. guys like this need ratted out big time. i'd be interested to know who it is and what company for my own curiosity. i'm getting into the local drifting scene here in indy.

Yeah, however if it goes as far as needing a lawyer and go to court over it.. they will have to refund me for lawyer/court fees if I were to win.

I'm not going to put the company/guy on blast because simply it's not the Company's fault, I mean they could be COMPLETELY unaware of the issue. Just know that it is a very large suspension company.

Seefutlung · Aug 3, 2012

After executing all of the above .. print an image of the driver (and the media guy if you got one) ... soak the image(s) in chicken blood, skewer the image(s) with needles, used pungi sticks and old toe nails while uttering this Nahuatl curse:
"

"

Then burn the image(s) ... if nothing else this will make you feel a bit better. Then sue the bastards in small claims.

G

12sndsgood · Aug 3, 2012

PNWSGM said:
12sndsgood said:

well sounds like he has showed talking to him won't do a bit of good. sucks a layer may cost, but this where you have pretty good proof you may get one to pick it up. if he did it to you chances are he's done it to someone else. guys like this need ratted out big time. i'd be interested to know who it is and what company for my own curiosity. i'm getting into the local drifting scene here in indy.

Click to expand...

Yeah, however if it goes as far as needing a lawyer and go to court over it.. they will have to refund me for lawyer/court fees if I were to win.

I'm not going to put the company/guy on blast because simply it's not the Company's fault, I mean they could be COMPLETELY unaware of the issue. Just know that it is a very large suspension company.

I understand that, it's not the companies fault. but at some point the company should know that their "photographer" is using stolen images and that could possibly reflect badly on them. i'd probalby call or send a nice polite letter to the companies marketing/advertising manager and explain the situation and that you want to settle this quietly rather then to wind up in court where there name could come up etc. that right there would likely get a very fast phone call from the company to said photography and could fix the entire situation. who knows. they could wind up dropping there photographer and be looking for a new one.

CCericola · Aug 3, 2012

You had 2 choices. Let it go and keep a friend or persue what is owed to you and burn your bridge. Looks like the media guy doesn't think you will do anything about it. My advice, register the photos, have a lawyer send a letter telling them to stop using your picture (i forget what those are called) then file in small claims for damages. Get yourself paid. If I was this company and I found out an employee was stealing, that employee would be fired and I would try to smooth things over with the offended party.

shefjr · Aug 3, 2012

That guy has some nerve removing your watermark. WTF!!! people suck!

KmH · Aug 3, 2012

EXIF data can be changed (edited), or deleted entirely by anyone.

imagemaker46 · Aug 3, 2012

Unfortunately, the first mistake was assuming that any of these guys really care if you get paid or not, or if you get credit for the use of any photos. I've been through this in the past. If you assumed that you would get more work out of these guys, future consideration, that's not going to happen. What you have done is given them a picture to use, simply by sending it to them, watermarked or not, unless the watermark was huge and a pain to remove, little one can easily be taken off, mind you so can large ones. You can threaten them with legal action, and they won't believe it, as I mentioned, they just don't care. If they are presented with an invoice from your registered photographic business for the use of the image, they may or may not do anything about it. Chances are you'll not get anything out of these guys.

I hope it turns out in your favour, but have my doubts.

12sndsgood · Aug 3, 2012

That was my thought for going to the company itself. this guy will likely just ignore you and hide. waiting for you to give up. for auto companies image is important, and a lot of times if they feel someone is being shady and it can hurt there image, they are quick to dump ties with them. well unless there shady too lol.

PNWSGM · Aug 4, 2012

imagemaker46 said:
Unfortunately, the first mistake was assuming that any of these guys really care if you get paid or not, or if you get credit for the use of any photos. I've been through this in the past. If you assumed that you would get more work out of these guys, future consideration, that's not going to happen. What you have done is given them a picture to use, simply by sending it to them, watermarked or not, unless the watermark was huge and a pain to remove, little one can easily be taken off, mind you so can large ones. You can threaten them with legal action, and they won't believe it, as I mentioned, they just don't care. If they are presented with an invoice from your registered photographic business for the use of the image, they may or may not do anything about it. Chances are you'll not get anything out of these guys.

I hope it turns out in your favour, but have my doubts.

I don't know how they do things in Canada but theft is a crime. Whether they want to do anything about it or not, if they choose not to legal action will be taken against them. The media guy and myself had a contract, it being verbal is regardless because it is still a contract (however this is where his word vs. mine comes into play), and he broke it. Simple as that.

12sndsgood said:
That was my thought for going to the company itself. this guy will likely just ignore you and hide. waiting for you to give up. for auto companies image is important, and a lot of times if they feel someone is being shady and it can hurt there image, they are quick to dump ties with them. well unless there shady too lol.

Hence why I wrote the President/owner/CEO a letter today. Called their business line and asked for the name of the President/owner/CEO, if I didn't get his name I am sure I was given a name of somebody who can pass this or get it taken care of.

Busy weekend ahead of myself. Sending the letter out 1st thing on Monday with screenshots of all the images and the images I took myself.

imagemaker46 · Aug 4, 2012

Good luck with all of this. I have had verbal contracts and always respected a handshake as someone's word. What goes on now and what used to go on in the photographic world are different, it really extends beyond photography. Some people just don't care, they see taking a photograph and using it as an ok thing to do, afterall it's just a photograph. The fact that the media guy has already decided to use the photo, and that his word means nothing, you have to know that he will just say you gave him permission to use the photo. Hopefully the person you are sending the letter to doesn't share the same attitude as the media guy.

Do you have a registered business?

12sndsgood · Aug 4, 2012

Might ask for head of their advertising or marketing department. from the past dealing with automotive sponsorships those are the two guys that will usually be dealing directly with this type of situation and those guys having been screwed over a lot from bad sponsorships and guys like this, and are usually pretty big on weeding out this type of situation. They truly hate people like this. Maybe cc them in the letter.

PNWSGM · Aug 5, 2012

12sndsgood said:
Might ask for head of their advertising or marketing department. from the past dealing with automotive sponsorships those are the two guys that will usually be dealing directly with this type of situation and those guys having been screwed over a lot from bad sponsorships and guys like this, and are usually pretty big on weeding out this type of situation. They truly hate people like this. Maybe cc them in the letter.

I might have to do that tomorrow. Perhaps send a copy to the head of advertising and marketing and then one to the president. The only thing I am worried about is if the media guy is their advertising and marketing department. Ya know?

Regardless, letter goes out tomorrow.

PNWSGM · Aug 10, 2012

My letter must have already gotten there because I woke up this morning to this message on FACEBOOK:

"Dear [Name Redacted].

ALL OF YOUR PHOTOS are being removed, with ALL YOUR Credits as well. We spoke back and forth in Seattle about using your photos for our website and internet marketing. To keep all looks uniform I had to crop it and do some ACTUAL color correction to make it fit. We talked briefly about it giving credit if we used it. It was used in a small FB ad for no monetary use. We where planning on using this in a print medium, and were going to pay you for your services. But once you sent in images marking them like a crime scene to our business, we have decided to drop all your photos and go with all of mine. We have a million things going on, we apologize about the delay in communication and where looking forward to buying the rights to your photo. A single facebook message to me directly could have solved the issues. Sending in photos like that to a company is not a way to get ahead in any shape. Thanks for your time, but we are moving forward with other options and photographs.

Thanks,

[Name Redacted]"

He also removed all the pictures from both his facebook and the company's website, good thing I took a screen shot of them.

KmH · Aug 10, 2012

Well you still have the infringement documented. Taking all the photos down doesn't clear them. "Small FB ad for no monetary use." is BS because monetary use, in this instance, has nothing to do with it.

Most of the rest of what they wrote is just posturing and whining.

Excuses, Excuses (Part 2) | Photo Attorney
9. I gave credit to the photographer.
Many mistakenly assume that they may use a photo so long as they acknowledge the photographer or otherwise provide the source of the photo. But, as far back as 1938, courts held that “[t]he fact that the defendant acknowledged the source from which this matter was taken does not excuse the infringement. While the acknowledgment indicates that it did not intend unfair competition, it does not relieve the defendant from legal liability for the infringement.” Henry Holt & Co., to Use of Felderman v. Liggett & Myers Tobacco Co., 23 F.Supp. 302, 304 (D.C.Pa. 1938).

10. I took it down when asked.
It’s a good thing to stop using a photo when asked, especially because continued use after notice constitutes willful infringement. See Pye v. Mitchell, 574 F.2d 476 (9th Cir.1978) (finding defendants liable for higher statutory damages because defendants had actual notice of the infringement in the form of a written release of liability, yet defendants continued to infringe); and Peer Int’l Corp. v. Pausa Records, Inc., 909 F.2d 1332 (9th Cir.1990), cert. denied, 498 U.S. 1109 (1991) (holding that licensee willfully infringed copyright by continuing to make recordings of copyrighted works after receiving written notice of termination from the copyright owners). But stopping the use when caught doesn’t address the past infringement for which the photographer may recover. This lame excuse also doesn’t work when caught stealing the t-shirt from the store. Whhile you may offer to give it back, you’re still on the hook for the theft.