questions about second shooter

mackgirl · Jan 2, 2009

Hi everyone,
I have a question, I met with a girl who responded to my ad of needing a second shooter, this will be my first time using a second shooter, I did some research about second shooters job description. She asked me if I would be putting any of her photographs, as a second shooter on my website, I am not sure yet, but if I do she would like for me to first ask her permission, and if she agrees for me to then give her credit for the photographs. Is this a normal request? I told her that she, being my second shooter can put some of her photos on her site but that she would have to give me credit, since I am the head photographer, and it was my client that she took the photos for. I've never seen anybody give credit on their site to their second shooter. The other issue is that she has her own business just like me, I feel like I would be giving her free advertising.
Basically what image rights do I have over a second shooters images. I know usually a second shooter hands their images over and that's it, you usually don't get to kept your images for your own personal use, I didn't want to be that way, because if I was second shooting I would like to be able to keep some of my images for my own website, the last wedding I was the second shooter and I gave credit on my site for whom I shot the photos for. I really like this girl and I really like her work. Does anyone know if her request is valid.

Ls3D · Jan 3, 2009

If I was second, I would not expect photo credits in any context. I would however (as first) allow the use of a few shots if the client was cool with it.

Contracts are agreements and as such two parties can agree to almost anything legal. Therefore I think it is totally up to you to both be fair and firm about your policies and of course a bit of diplomacy can go a long way.

Explain that you would like to have a long term business relationship with her and that as 2nd her exposure (liability, stress, etc) is a fraction of yours, again depending again on your agreements (contract language or verbal).

I'm obviously not a lawyer or pro wed shooter, but the board may be a bit slow tonight so these are my humble thoughts on the subject.

-Shea

LarissaPhotography · Jan 3, 2009

If it were me, I'd probably have a contract where the images your second shooter takes are yours and you outline payment either via commission on sales of her pictures or a predetermined flat rate for the wedding. It seems like it would be pointless to even have a second photographer if you couldn't use the images yourself.

NateWagner · Jan 3, 2009

Right. I can't imagine why one would have a second shooter and have to ask permission to use one of their photos on the site or wherever. The contract is usually such that the primary photographer get (at the minimum) unlimited use of the photos, other times the second shooter has to give up copyright.

I think what you were thinking is best though, let them use the photos they shoot on their own website if they would like (with the brides permission of course).

One thing to consider though is that if she is competition and is using photos of a certain wedding on her site, others who know the bride may assume that the other photographer was "THE PHOTOGRAPHER" at the wedding, instead of you.

Because of this sometimes second shooters are only allowed to use the images in a portfolio or in print, for if potential clients are coming in just to see them.

federerphotography · Jan 13, 2009

Standard (thought even that's a stretch with all the ad-hoc agreements out there) M.O. is that the primary photographer gets the images, can use the images, can deliever the images and does not need to give credit.

However, the secondary photographer can use the images for self-promotion w/o needing to say "captured while shooting for XXXX".

Christie Photo · Jan 13, 2009

federerphotography said:
Standard (thought even that's a stretch with all the ad-hoc agreements out there) M.O. is that the primary photographer gets the images, can use the images, can deliever the images and does not need to give credit.

However, the secondary photographer can use the images for self-promotion w/o needing to say "captured while shooting for XXXX".

This sounds fair.

The only exception I can think of is if the "second shooter" is making photographs under the direction of the photographer. Then they're not actually the maker, are they?

Remember.... if the "second" was on the payroll rather than contracted labor, I'd would be quite clear. He/she would have no claim to the images.