Reluctant to ask Assistant Question

[Alpha]

I'll take a good bit of that to heart.

And you're right, I was being too critical of the SB setup.

On the other hand, the advice I gave in my first post is perfectly sound. I'm not trying to discourage anyone from following their dreams. But there are realities to setting up and running a business that most people here are reluctant to talk about. If you think I should be disallowed from giving advice because I don't run a photo business full time, then fine. I won't give any advice. But I see hardly anyone here who does run a business giving any real advice. You guys never talk about your hardships. You just say follow your dreams and beat the pavement...as if that will make everything fall into place. It doesn't work like that and you know it. Maybe it does if you just wanna pick up a speedlite and spend the rest of your days shooting family portraits. But that side of the business is only part of it. Not only are the gear requirements generally higher for commercial and architectural work, but client relationships are substantially different as well. There are plenty of crappy portrait photographers because there are plenty of people willing to pay for crappy portraits. But try going to a commercial client with a mediocre portfolio and you won't have such an easy time. I may not own a photography business, but I've consulted on marketing for Fortune 500 companies and run an internet marketing consulting company that's placed people in top 5 search engine results in the world. I come from a line of business that's not so different from the world of commercial photography. At the very least, I know more about selling yourself than anyone here, bar none. So if you think I don't know what I'm talking about when I say that when push comes to shove, the proof is in the pudding, I think that you're wrong-- at least outside the portrait world. But you don't have to take my word for it.

It's easy for people to be misled into thinking that when you and the other pros on this site tell them what you know about the professional photography world, you're talking about the whole photography world. You at least ought to make that caveat, because if you want to jump into any other part of the pro photo world with just a speedlite and a dream, chances are you won't make it that far.

 

[dpolston]

We're not trying to reinvent the wheel here.

On business matters; I understand the concept of glad-hand marketing to print advertising. On equipment; I don't need the debate on Cannon vs Nikon, medium format film cameras vs Hasselblad Digital - 29meg cameras, portable lights vs two friends pointing flashlights at the subject.

I personally think if you give a 3 dollar 110mm (remember those) film camera to a master photographer, that person can make you cry! I also believe that some of these photographers with unlimited resources should have their eyes plucked from their heads because of the crap the shoot!

I know that to be successful, it's got to be "all about me". I am the one that shoots, dumps images to my Epson p-200, photoshops them for composition,color and all that other stuff. I am the one that will have images printed and sends them to clients. I am the one that will pull to the side of a busy road to take the sunset shot, I am the one that will market these and meet the coffee shop owner and say "Hey, I'm a photographer and I think we can do each other some good". and the hundreds of other things. But if I shoot bad, sub-standard images, I should not be in business.

My thing is, in my very unique case, I have never-ever had a single formal photo class in my life. And because of that, everything I have done in this medium has been on the job training. I know that I can benefit from these classes but I (because of my business, wife, daughters, church, life, friends...) can't commit to a structured classroom environment.

That's why I am here. If you all come to me and ask construction questions, how to fix your houses questions; I am a master. I know what advice to give and where to go and how to shop this industry. I come to you and once again ask:

How do you as "professionals" really feel about newcomers in the business? Are we a threat to you, gonna take your business? Are you really willing to teach someone your lifestyle? How hard is it really to get your name out there?

This is a purely business, not a photo, how-to question. The posts here to this point have been mixed.

 

[elsaspet]

Ok,
I'm gonna give you what my personal experience here was. I'll give you the abbreviated version:

Started with a 20d and some kit lens. Took some good shots. Took some bad shots.
Worked under a few working wedding photogs, and decided this was for me.
At the time, I had a full time job that I hated. I talked things over with my husband (cruicial that you have your loved one's belief in you) and we decided to go for it.
We sold our home, and an old truck that just hung out in the driveway. We walked away with about 8 grand in profit from the two.
We took that 8 grand, and bought a few lenses, a professional website, some business cards, and a decent flash.
My "portfolio" for meetings consisted of a little self mount slip in album I bought at Target. (I came across it the other day, and we both had a good chuckle. I've now display it proudly. We've come far!) Oh, and I got a $50 gift card for Starbucks so I had money to pay for potential client's coffee.
The first year, we had a package that cost $999, that included everything but the kitchen sink. We sold 46 deals that year.
We took out only what we needed to live, and spent every other penny on more and better equipment, more programs, better computers, and some killer lenses and a few more cameras.
The next year we doubled our prices. Six months later, we charged even more. Booked like freaks.
This year, we raised our prices again, and started taking out services, so that there is a bit more profit. We have no studio, and use location only. We still live in an apartment to keep costs down. My meeting area is my living room, and my office is not much larger than a walk in closet.
However, this year we will be making some serious money. All our equipment is paid for, and we don't need much in the way of equipment anymore. If anything, we will be replacing worn equipment. So all the money coming in now is fun money.

Besides a few $10,000 rock stars in the area, we are charging consistant to the upper end photogs in the area. IMO, I was embarrassed to enter this arena because I'm now in direct competition with some extremely talented photographers vying for the same high end clientelle.

This is where my sales background has come in handy. I am good at marketing, and even better at selling. Not only am I holding my own, I'm outselling a good portion of my competition.

So, from my experience, I would say:
You are going to put in way more hours than you ever did in your life.
You will have to make sacrifices, financially and family wise.
You are going to have to make yourself ask for the money.
The most important thing is to believe in yourself and have your family's belief as well.
If you can do these things, you can be successful.

The best to you with any decision you make.
Many hugs,
Cindy

 

[elsaspet]

Oh, and to answer your other question.....
The last two years we have always had an apprencise/3rd shooter.
We had help, and I believe firmly in giving back.

It's good for us because we can give back and have a few extra hands.
It's good for them because we pay them, and they get a crash course in the wedding business.
All of our assistance have gone on to be full time wedding photographers. One is now my competitor. Am I angry? Not at all. When I'm booked, I send jobs her way. There is more than enough work for everyone.
I believe that MOST professional photogs are this way.
Don't be upset if you don't get to assist your idol. If he turns you down, ask someone else.
Good Luck!

 

[photogoddess]

Some professionals hold everything close and share with no one, some share for a price and others share freely. I'm a firm believer that you get out of life (and business) what you put into it. So, I share with anyone that asks - even photographers in my area.

I started years ago with a borrowed AE1 - I was 19 (1988), a single mom and was hungry. No flash, no back up - just me and a borrowed camera. I took any photo job that I could get. I worked in labs for years making contacts, assisting, doing darkroom work - anything to learn more. Then I 'upgraded' to a Minolta 3xi, a couple of kit lenses and a Ritz Camera flash - still no back up but I shot my heart out and got lucky that nothing ever failed. Extremely lucky. Fast forward to years later. I then had a thriving business with my hubby at the time that wasn't photo related but it helped me to get 'proper' gear - a Bronica with lenses, flash, backs - the works. Now I had that trusty old Minolta as my back up.

A few years later, I bought my first real digital camera - a Canon 10D, some kit lenses and a flash. Instead of shooting weddings and portraits with it, I continued shooting film until I got used to the digital capture and workflow. Secretly I'm a closet film geek anyways. By the time 2005 rolled around - I finally felt comfortable shooting a wedding digitally - kind of. I ended up shooting about half film and half digital but in 2006 I finally went 'mostly' digital for client work. Now film is 'just for me'.

I did photography part time for 18 years - between raising 4 kids and running several businesses; I finally went full time after selling my other businesses, home and property out to my ex in our divorce. It was finally time to chase my dream.

I didn't need portfolio material except that I needed digital images to put a website together. I started by calling every friend and family member that I could and offered free portrait sessions with the following conditions. Don't ever tell anyone that this was free, tell and show your friends your great portraits. Tell them that I'm in business and give them my number and I get to use the images for anything that I want. I also shot 2 weddings dirt cheap with the same conditions. Scanning years of negs just wasn't feasible - cost, dust, etc... so this was my solution to get the images I needed quickly.

While my website was being built, I started a blog so I could show people my current work and create a buzz. I printed up business cards, post cards and samples using these newly acquired digital images and started handing them out. Short runs from WHCC so I could keep the cost down and update them often. For my immediate family, I gave them mounted images for their homes, handbags with their kids on them, albums & calendars along with stacks of promo and business cards. Then the website went live and I added the images that I had taken.

I show up to every holiday party, every gathering, every event with my camera and shoot. Their friends, extended family, colleagues and places they do business with see me and my work. I hand out business cards (in a non pushy way - most people ask) and post photos on my blog with a blurb about the event. I've learned that I can't be shy unless I want to go hungry and that it's possible to be a good sales person without being pushy. Just be excited about your work... chimp and show people the back of the camera. You'd be surprised how many people ask for your card right there. Always, always, ALWAYS have some on hand.

A year ago I was invited to a company Christmas party by a friend. One of those in-home party kind of companies... I was tired and needed to work on my marketing but I had a good feeling about it and went. I brought along a portfolio book and blew the owner away so not only did I photograph the Christmas party but I now photograph ALL of their events AND worked out a deal to provide complimentary sessions to their clients. I provide the postcards, they distribute them and while the session fee is waived, the clients pay for prints. Tasmanian photographer Tero Sade gives seminars on cooperative marketing just like this. His DVDs are expensive but worth it as they literally walk you through everything - they even include sample letters. Never say free to a client - it cheapens your work. Complimentary with a $... Value is much better.

All of a sudden I found myself shooting many sessions a week and have my weekends booked up 2 months in advance with the clients that have been sent to me by that company. This is in addition to the referral clients from the friends and family that I photographed and gave all the gifts to. Oh... and the rumor is true... the more in demand you are, the more in demand you are. I can literally hear clients shift gears when I tell them I'm booked up for 2 months - there's a new urgency to book that wasn't there before. Some wait for an open Saturday spot, some find the time to come during the week - taking time off from work to do so.

Maternity sessions... I remind them to call me when their baby is born and comp them that session as well as a new baby gift. Bridal sessions... I remind them to come in for their family portraits or for a couples anniversary session... their weddings if I'm not already doing it for them. Whatever the session is, I remind them of another need for portraits. Parents visiting from out of state? Need an extended family session for grandparents? Anniversary coming up? Getting another year older? How about a boudoir session to remind your SO (or yourself) that you've still got it? I'm excited about my work, about my clients and it gets them excited about it too.

I never EVER forget to take care of the friends and family that help me to get this business off the ground - they get their annual family sessions comped to them as thanks. The usual rules apply but they love seeing their kids all over my marketing materials, studio and even more importantly, their homes and they truly feel like they are part of my business. In truth, they are my sales staff.

Clients that I click with, that place a good order or are 'regulars' get little extras with their orders. I keep little wallet, 3x3 & 5x5 peel & stick albums on hand for these gifts. I pick the images (usually from their favorites) and they find this little surprise in with their order. If I use their photos for advertising, they get a small box of business cards with their photo on them to hand out to their friends as well. You'd be amazed at how fast cards get handed out to friends and family when it's their images on them.

I'm on a pro photographer forum and network with other pros. I attend workshops, seminars, conventions and get-togethers. I second shoot for other locals and sometimes they second shoot for me. The point is the get out there and network - some of your best referrals often come from a colleague that's already booked.

Is it hard? Hell yeah! Is it worth it? Hell Yeah! I'm swamped and yet I'm still trying to build this business into one that is hugely profitable. Within the first year it was self supporting - even with huge computer, software and camera purchases. I don't shoot with that old 10D and kit lenses anymore - thankfully I've been able to buy a 5D, two 30D backups (wooohoooo), some kick ass lenses, multiple flash units, etc... I've never worked so hard but I wake up every day and pinch myself that I have the career of my dreams. Failure is not an option... just remember that!

 

[elsaspet]

Awesome story PG!!!! Totally inspiring!
And I wanted to add, GREAT sales and Marketing!!!!! (The fact that your also an awesome photog doesn't hurt)
And that last paragraph sums it all up so well.
*Hugs*

 

[Alpha]

Thank you both for sharing those. Such real tales of hardship and success are rarely, if ever, told on this board. (I don't believe I've even seen them before from anyone here).

 

[photogoddess]

Awesome story PG!!!! Totally inspiring!
And I wanted to add, GREAT sales and Marketing!!!!! (The fact that your also an awesome photog doesn't hurt)
And that last paragraph sums it all up so well.
*Hugs*

You're so sweet Cindy! :hugs: I hope that in sharing our stories and information that even one person finds the strength... the determination within themselves to chase their dream.

Oh... and I almost forgot to add... The more you shoot, the more you learn. Keep pushing yourself and you'll find that things you loved 6 months ago, you may suddenly hate. This is a good thing as it means that you're improving. Once you know you're putting out consistently good work - remember that there is someone out there that will buy it. It just might not be the 1st, 2nd or even 20th door you knock on so keep trying!

 

[dpolston]

OMG PG and Cindy!

Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! Thank You!

That's the kind of answers I needed. You both (and all of you here) are amazing, but post 18 and 20 need to be in a "forum hall of fame"!

David. (I can't wait to meet you all)

BTW - My wife is the one that started this entire thing. She bought me my first real camera (Minolta Maxium 5000) for me when we were 16. She is my number one supporter, right in front of my kids and then my sister. Family is the key.

 

[elsaspet]

If your wife is on your side, you are half way there already.
Go gettum Tiger!