Second shooter rights...

DepthAfield · Mar 1, 2006

Question for the Pro wedding photographers

Ive been offered a gig as second shooter by a local wedding Pro, and Im flattered to have been given the opportunity This Pro however, has informed me that I would be required to sign a release giving her all rights to my images.

I can understand signing a provisional release, allowing the studio to sell the reprints of those images. But signing away all copyrights?? Is this common practice? By signing such a document, I wouldnt even be able to use the images in my own portfolio (if I understand the law correctly).

Your thoughts and comments are much appreciated.

ClarkKent · Mar 1, 2006

Well, I too have had the privaledge of being a helper with a Pro Wedding photographer. Mostly I help with lighting and such. Nevertheless, he does let me practice shooting, and all the images that I make belong to him since I was hired to work for him. I am happy enough just to be able to tag along and help me learn about Wedding Photography.

DepthAfield · Mar 1, 2006

ClarkKent You have signed off on your copyrights when working as a second shooter?

You are likely correct with that decision, but man I have serious second thoughts.

Please More input from members of the forum

bace · Mar 1, 2006

I Would tell him to **** off, personally. But I don't know how much he's paying you. It all comes down to how much he's paying you really.

If it's just chump change, then laugh at him. If it's like $500 then take the money and invest in some advertising for you own wedding photography.

Then become better than him. Then take over the world.

photogoddess · Mar 1, 2006

Generally when you work for hire like that, you do give up your copyrights. Much like working for any of the portrait studios like Penney's, Sears, Wal-Mart, etc. Just my 2 cents but I would try to work a deal with this photographer to be allowed to use your shots in your portfolio but honestly, as a photographer just starting to do weddings, you will likely gain an education from this pro (as well as a few bucks in your pocket for the days work) that has more value than potentially a couple of shots in your portfolio. Keep in mind that sometimes you learn what NOT to do so keep your eyes open and use your head. Unfortunately this is the price that you pay to get the experience that you absolutely need to shoot weddings on your own but try to remember that you won't need to assist forever. With the knowlege you gain, you will be able to take on jobs of your own that you'll be able to put in your portfolio. I assisted on my first wedding when I was 19 years old, didn't get to keep any copyrights and received many priceless lessons that helped me to be able to do weddings on my own. I'm 36 now and have shot a lot of weddings. Believe me, I'm not missing those shots for my portfolio at all. :lol:

All things considered, I feel that I came out WAY ahead from my old assisting days. :mrgreen:

PhotoB · Mar 1, 2006

I worked for a studio and never had copyright of my own images. But I still use them in my portfolio. I got permission from my boss. Once I get going on my own more, I'm sure I will be replacing them with more of my own creativity.

markc · Mar 1, 2006

I completely agree with photogoddess. I know it rankles, but I think you'll find that it's worth it.

JonK · Mar 1, 2006

I'm sure if you ask nicely and have a good working relationship that the 'pro' may allow you to use images you shot in your portfolio. all you have to do is ask!

Big Mike · Mar 1, 2006

Did you ask if you could still use the images in your portfolio? It's understandable that she would want the rights, so that she can make her money for this gig...but if she's nice, there should be no reason not to give you some shots for your portfolio.

*edit* Jon beat me to it....

Christie Photo · Mar 1, 2006

bace said:
I Would tell him to **** off, personally. But I don't know how much he's paying you. It all comes down to how much he's paying you really.

If it's just chump change, then laugh at him. If it's like $500 then take the money and invest in some advertising for you own wedding photography.

Then become better than him. Then take over the world.

Heh heh.... I'm the culprit.

Brandon, you can use whatever you shoot for me to promote yourself. I'm all for that. That's why I send you the ones I can't do myself.

I do, however, need to have the ability to sell anything you shoot when working with me.

For everyone else... we have nothing in writing, just a gentleman's agreement. And, regretfully, I can't pay a BUNCH for his help. I'm greatful for his help, and enjoy sharing what I do with him. Plus, I get the benfit of his perspective... a fresh look.

Pete

photogoddess · Mar 1, 2006

Pete's the pro on this wedding??? Holy smokes dude - I started out assisting for a couple of really bad photographers. Hence my comment about sometimes learning what NOT to do. One guy even took half a roll of film with the dark slide still in the camera before I caught it. :lol: