Shooting weddings

[Designer]

I spent a lot of time with this calculator before I left my teaching job to go fulltime with my business. Every few months the numbers got better and better, and more realistic. Very powerful tool, indeed.

Those numbers are not unrealistic. A car will only run for a few hundred thousand miles (on average), a computer becomes obsolete two or three years after you take it home, cameras and lights do break sometimes.

 

[imagemaker46]

It doesn't answer my original question?

Why shouldn't wedding photographers get paid to do what they are good at? This particular photographer has gone to great lengths to show you that the round fee you see as excessive, is not really excessive (all things considered).

Also:

"If you're good at something, don't do it for free."

I didn't question if they should get paid or not, I asked how do they justify charging $5000+ for a wedding, and how much do they clear shooting a wedding. I see how the one photographer broke down his expenses, and those expenses are pretty much the same as most professional photographers. I also never said the fees were excessive.

 

[Majeed Badizadegan]

I didn't question if they should get paid or not, I asked how do they justify charging $5000+ for a wedding, and how much do they clear shooting a wedding. I see how the one photographer broke down his expenses, and those expenses are pretty much the same as most professional photographers. I also never said the fees were excessive.

To use your own words:

how do they justify charging $5000+ for a wedding, and how much do they clear shooting a wedding.

How do wedding photographers justify charging the fees they do? I understand the professional side, experience, editing and the minor PS work, etc. But how does someone justify charging $5000 and up to shoot a wedding.

I also never said the fees were excessive.

But, you implied and continue to imply the fees are excessive by using words like "justify". How does a plastic surgeon justify charging $6,000 + per procedure? How does a cashier justify making $9/hr?

It's all relative. If someone is willing to pay for the services at that price, then they can charge that price. As a professional photographer, which I think you are, I'm surprised that of all people you would be asking this question.

Do years of experience, tens of thousands in gear, and a dedication to provide professional services not justify the price a wedding photographer sets?

 

[imagemaker46]

Plastic surgeon...photographer. I suppose they are the same one buys a $5.00 scalpel and opens up a practice, one buys a $600 camera is a professional. Don't start dragging this into another one of those mindless comparison threads.

As a photographer that doesn't work in this field, is exactly why I'm asking the question. I know how much I spend/make/earn on each assignment I do. If I don't know how much someone who does weddings clears on each shoot, it has nothing to do with being a professional photographer. I did expect to get swarmed on this question.

I know that if I shoot for 4 hours and clear $500 that's pretty good for shooting sports, and I am dealing with all the same conditions as a wedding photographer that is charging $5000 for the same time period, apart from me being in the wrong area of photography. I know what the sports market is like so I know what I can charge, and it's a lot less than what wedding photographers make. Maybe I should just start shooting weddings.

 

[Majeed Badizadegan]

Maybe I should just start shooting weddings.

So the heart of the matter is reached

 

[imagemaker46]

I'm not trying to be a dick about any of this, I'm just curious.

 

[Majeed Badizadegan]

Also worth considering, in a lot of markets when you start getting into the $5k+ area, you're talking about big photographers with well-known names. Not saying some normal wedding photographers can't/don't charge $5k, just saying when you're starting to get into the higher prices the brand/reputation/quality of work becomes a bigger factor. So you're somewhat paying for the name and the reputation attached to that name.

Also, there's no re-do's on weddings. So you want to make sure whoever you hire nails it, the first time. Some people are willing to pay more for that than others.

 

[imagemaker46]

Oh I know all about the name factor, there is one here in my home town that lives on it, biggest jerk you'd ever meet when things don't go his way he whines, but he does do some amazing work. I would also guess that his wedding packages start over $10k. He is dealing with a massive overhead, his studio is the building he owns, he has staff hair, makeup, computer techs, lighting specialists, basically he's the trigger man, he probably pays out close to $1500-2000 to his day staff. Kind of like what Karsh did in the day, without the computer, but film re-touchers.

I can understand where his fees come from, I've known him a long time. But most wedding photographers don't have studios and their overhead is considerable lower, I think the question should have been how these types justify the fees.

 

[Ballistics]

Why Wedding Photographers' Prices are ?Wack?

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that this break down, includes costs of living into expenses. Which isn't how things work.
You don't include your home rent, your car payment, your own health insurance, shoes (really?) etc.


On top of that, the equipment list reads as if every year, you have the same expenses. So if you bought all of that stuff up front, and include it in your first years expenses, you can't include it in any other years expenses.
And it's all tax deductible.

This is another inflated CODB list.

 

[imagemaker46]

Why Wedding Photographers' Prices are ?Wack?

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that this break down, includes costs of living into expenses. Which isn't how things work.
You don't include your home rent, your car payment, your own health insurance, shoes (really?) etc.


On top of that, the equipment list reads as if every year, you have the same expenses. So if you bought all of that stuff up front, and include it in your first years expenses, you can't include it in any other years expenses.
And it's all tax deductible.

This is another inflated CODB list.

Exactly. I work out of my home, but all of my shoots are on location. I write off as much as I can on income tax. When I do a shoot out of town all of my expenses are covered, everything. My camera bodies last me anywhere between 5-8 years all the glass I have lasts 10+ years, laptops every 2-3 years.

 

[LouR]

snip

I know that if I shoot for 4 hours and clear $500 that's pretty good for shooting sports, and I am dealing with all the same conditions as a wedding photographer that is charging $5000 for the same time period, apart from me being in the wrong area of photography. I know what the sports market is like so I know what I can charge, and it's a lot less than what wedding photographers make. Maybe I should just start shooting weddings.

The two are most definitely NOT the same. Our studio did weddings, sports, fine art portraits and schools. There is a protocol for each situation and you can't compare any of them to each other besides the fact cameras are involved. A good professional wedding photographer will be with the bride from dressing, hair and makeup until she and her groom say good night and the party's over (about 12 hours). A second shooter should be with the groom. Both randoms and posed shots are taken. Each photographer should have more than one camera, a pile of flash cards and several batteries. That's a wedding shoot.
Sports shoot: Stand on the side of the field/court and shoot. If doing team portraits,set up backgrounds and lights, pose them and shoot. Have extra equipment as well, similar to the wedding gig.
Regarding the wedding shoot, there could be in excess of 200 images, sometimes close to 1,000 that have to be edited down. Once that is done, a proof book will be made and the happy couple get to choose what they want in their books and on their walls. Once that's been done, retouching and designing the book pages start. More approvals before the final product is delivered, which, depending on the speed of the happy couple, could come down to about 6-8 months. We have, however worked on wedding shoots that were done 2 years prior because of the slowness of the couple.
Sports shoots: Post pictures on a website to sell. No retouching, no proof books, no albums to design. Maybe design posters or borders.
We would have brides taking months to make their choices, then while we're retouching and designing and editing, they're calling in a panic wondering where their books are. I am actually surprised that people in the photography business are just as clueless.

 

[Robin_Usagani]

Well.. to start one of the albums I offer will cost me $600 - $700 before profit, that right there will bring up the total price to $4000+ range.

It is simple. It is like getting a tattoo. Bad artist will do the same amount of work as an awesome tattoo artist. You justify it with your TALENT, not by the service you provide.

 

[Ballistics]

 

[12sndsgood]

why does nike make shoes that cost $5 bucks to make for 200 and (insert generic shoe company) make shoes that cost 3 bucks to make for $20 name brand. once your known and people want you and come to you, you can afford to raise the costs. that usually comes with experience. but not always. to go with your 4 hours for $500 theory. if your working 12 hours for a wedding with two guys thats roughly 3 grand rigth there to "match" your pricing. diffrence is as a wedding photographer you have more leeway to adjust pricing upwards (if your good)

 

[Ballistics]

why does nike make shoes that cost $5 bucks to make for 200 and (insert generic shoe company) make shoes that cost 3 bucks to make for $20 name brand. once your known and people want you and come to you, you can afford to raise the costs. that usually comes with experience. but not always. to go with your 4 hours for $500 theory. if your working 12 hours for a wedding with two guys thats roughly 3 grand rigth there to "match" your pricing. diffrence is as a wedding photographer you have more leeway to adjust pricing upwards (if your good)

The thing is with clothing, is that you aren't just paying the $5 in materials and labor. You are paying the multi-million dollar expenses of logistics which includes storage, shipping, and distribution, top tier advertising, shoe designers, celebrity endorsers, etc. While I agree that the name brand adds price, many low skilled photographers are charging upwards of $3k without any product overhead and then making blog posts using their clothing, car payments and home rent as "expenses" to justify why they charge what they do.

(This paragraph isn't directed at anyone) I can't help but to look at the portfolios of these complaining wedding photographers justifying their $5k fee for a whopping 40 hours of work, and seeing piss poor excuses of photographs. The work aside, if you provide photography that no one else does and you are charging more, you have my complete support. But if you are comparing your work side by side with other high charing photographers(or what ever your fee level may be), and you wind up embarrassed .. don't think that a laundry list of what adds up to a regular full time work week is justification for your fee. A good wedding photographer takes good photos, which is at the end of the day what someone is paying for.

Some people will say that the end result is not what you are charging for, which is fine, but that isn't what the client is paying for.

I shouldn't have to say this, but I am not trying to portray opinion as fact. You can discern which is fact and which is opinion.