Starting off your biz with dirt cheap prices

[ClickAddict]

Oh and for the record. the 150$ session fee is reasonable. I was referring to some that think even that is too low and photographers should be charging even more. The "higher end" photographers would not survive here. Mid range can and do.

 

[Robin Usagani]

Yes, but it is more rewarding. Yes there are some crazy photographers out there (including me) who just started out and right away do weddings. But the # is not as many as family photographers.

This is why I want to pursue weddings Lol. If someone wants family pics, then sure I'll do it. But I won't be trying very hard to get customers.

You think weddings just come to you? You're in for a rude awakening. The wedding market is one of the most cut-throat markets there is.

 

[Big Mike]

True, but 3 hours away from me is a hole in the ground. If you're an hour from Dallas, Dallas is in your market area. My closest "Dallas" is about 10 hours ride away. Are you good enough to pull in a client that far when you're just a year in the business? No. 20 years and have countless magazine shoots, quite possibly, but certanly not frequently. So no we are not in the same situation. (Not that I've even started a business for this yet) And yes, even here there will be customers that will pay high prices. Just not enough to keep a business running.

Have you ever heard of John Ratchford? He's out of Cape Breton (which I'm told can have unemployment levels up to 50%) and he does well. Not only well, but he does much of his business shooting high school seniors...which is almost unheard of in Canada. When asked how he even stays afloat in a town with 50% unemployment...he says "I market to the other 50%".

 

[Big Mike]

Big Mike, are saying things like websites or business cards that look professionally well done may attract a higher paying customer than one that's looks amateurish or homemade?

It's a start...but there is obviously a lot more to it than that.
For example, some photographers I know & work with, spend thousands on making sure that their site shows up on the first page of a Google search of their primary search words..."Location" + Photographers.
Then there are the trade shows. I know some photographers who spend a lot on their booths for these shows.
I know one photographer, who has stainless steel business cards that cost $5 each. They are expensive, but when he hands only one or two out at a wedding, everyone in the room will see it.
I've met a photographer who goes to several high end salons and places like that...and offers to install a flat screen TV. He then runs a slideshow / commercial on that screen...directly marketing to the market segment that he wants to work for.

 

[bennielou]

Here's the deal as I know it:

When I first started out, I advertised VERY low pricing. No one called. I couldn't get a bite with dentures. Then someone told me to raise my pricing. I didn't change ONE THING on my website, and once I changed my pricing, the phone started ringing and never stopped.

Now, don't go crazy with it. The hard part is to look at the area competition and take a reality check into where you really fit in. Then adjust you pricing to match and market your butt off.

 

[PhotoWrangler]

Here's the deal as I know it:

When I first started out, I advertised VERY low pricing. No one called. I couldn't get a bite with dentures. Then someone told me to raise my pricing. I didn't change ONE THING on my website, and once I changed my pricing, the phone started ringing and never stopped.

Now, don't go crazy with it. The hard part is to look at the area competition and take a reality check into where you really fit in. Then adjust you pricing to match and market your butt off.

I have heard this same exact thing time after time after time. People who WILL pay for professional photography, do not take a craigslist ad seriously. If your prices are cheap, the target client is going to think you don't know what you're doing.

Its like those cheapo depot 'buy here pay here' used car dealerships. They're cars are cheap, and they have clients, but their office building is a shack because they are barely making any money. Where as the new car dealership has cars that are WAY more expensive, and they may have less clients, but those clients are the ones with serious income.


ETA: In fact, two years ago we were struggling to have our wedding clients purchase our mid range package. After doing some research we RAISED our prices.... and now we are selling our LARGE package like hotcakes!

 

[vtf]

Just to make $36,000 a year income you have to bring in $700 a week. At $100 a shoot thats 7 sessions a week.
7 sessions x 1 hour travel set up, 1 hour travel and take down plus 2 hour session equals 28 hours.
7 sessions x 4 hours pp work per session equals 28 hours.
Total equals 56 hours work at $11.58 per hours.
Take 36,000 and subtract 25% income tax, insurance, ss tax etc. equals $27,000. Now its $8.95 hour.
Subtract rent, equipment upgrades, printing expenses, dvds, not to mention Marketing alone will take even more time and money.
You'll make more money working at a portrait studio as Manager for $400 a week and probably using better equipment.
The reality is that those who have $50 sessions do not need the money as the main source to survive.

 

[Goshdern]

I just joined the forums last night, but this is exactly the type of thread I need to show my wife. She has this "everyone is broke" mentality but I keep telling her it's just because you are not marketing to the right people. From my experience in sales indeed people will pay more just because they believe higher cost equals higher quality. Also the people who haggle you down to the point where you barely make money will come back 15 times wanting tweeks that will eventually cost you money. I think you need to price these "bargain shoppers" out!

I agree totally that you have to value yourself if you want others to. (+1 Sw1tchFX)

I've noticed some seem defensive, I think they may be reading the responses wrong. They are not arguing that things might be bad in your area, I believe they are trying to be motivational; since the lake is half empty, you should let out more line and get your bait back in the water~

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Big Mike, are saying things like websites or business cards that look professionally well done may attract a higher paying customer than one that's looks amateurish or homemade?

It's a start...but there is obviously a lot more to it than that.
For example, some photographers I know & work with, spend thousands on making sure that their site shows up on the first page of a Google search of their primary search words..."Location" + Photographers.
Then there are the trade shows. I know some photographers who spend a lot on their booths for these shows.
I know one photographer, who has stainless steel business cards that cost $5 each. They are expensive, but when he hands only one or two out at a wedding, everyone in the room will see it.
I've met a photographer who goes to several high end salons and places like that...and offers to install a flat screen TV. He then runs a slideshow / commercial on that screen...directly marketing to the market segment that he wants to work for.

Of course there is more to it. But I look at some things having a bigger impact than others. A website is a bigger deal than people seem to think. After all, a majority of your marketing efforts, are driving people to your website to get more information. The fact is people DO judge a book by it's cover. I don't think anyone will contest the idea that if you want a higher dollar client, you better look higher dollar. Do facebook pages and craiglist ads scream Quality? No. You are attracting bottom of the barrel customers for the most part. But then, since most of these ventures I see pass through this forum, it's people starting a business before they thouroughly know what they are doing and can deliver a consistant quality product, and get the prices to sustain a business properly.

Look at your excellent examples of people pumping a lot of money into interesting and unique marketing strategies.
Another good example is getting into as many charity silent auctions as you can. There are so many avenues to reach people.

 

[KmH]

Just to make $36,000 a year income you have to bring in $700 a week. At $100 a shoot thats 7 sessions a week.
7 sessions x 1 hour travel set up, 1 hour travel and take down plus 2 hour session equals 28 hours.
7 sessions x 4 hours pp work per session equals 28 hours.
Total equals 56 hours work at $11.58 per hours.
Take 36,000 and subtract 25% income tax, insurance, ss tax etc. equals $27,000. Now its $8.95 hour.
Subtract rent, equipment upgrades, printing expenses, dvds, not to mention Marketing alone will take even more time and money.
You'll make more money working at a portrait studio as Manager for $400 a week and probably using better equipment.
The reality is that those who have $50 sessions do not need the money as the main source to survive.

Change the word income to revenue in the first sentence and it all makes more sense.

The fact is - income is what money is left after all the taxes and non-reimbursable expenses are subtracted from revenue.

Realistically a studio based retail portrait photography business would need to generate revenue in the neighborhood of $120,000 a year ($2700 a week) to produce an income of about $30,000 a year for the owner.

Then factor in that there is no realistic way for a one person business to shoot 52 weeks a year (its more like 46 or 47 weeks).

 

[dnavarrojr]

Yes, but it is more rewarding. Yes there are some crazy photographers out there (including me) who just started out and right away do weddings. But the # is not as many as family photographers.

This is why I want to pursue weddings Lol. If someone wants family pics, then sure I'll do it. But I won't be trying very hard to get customers.

You think weddings just come to you? You're in for a rude awakening. The wedding market is one of the most cut-throat markets there is.

You are comparing VERY experienced, "brand name" photographers against someone without name recognition. That's apples and oranges.

My two cents is this... Any business you have survives, thrives and grows based on RESEARCH. Every minute you are not doing paid work you need to be doing research. Research on your competition, research on your customers, research on what other people are doing to bring business in. Based on all of the acquired knowledge you gain from that research, that is how you run your business. Not one person here can give you a formula for a profitable business of every type and every location. Every place is different and thus creates different variables which have to be used in YOUR formula for success.

There's a some great advice here and some bad advice. It's up to you to do the research necessary to discover which is true for you and your business. If something works, keep doing it. If something doesn't work, stop doing it. And when you don't know what to do, do research.

As for pricing... ALWAYS charge the most you can and still get work. Someone said, when things get busy then raise your rates... and I couldn't agree more. But when things slow down, resist the urge to immediately lower your rates. Ride it out for a while before you lower your rates and only do so when absolutely necessary.

And finally... Based on my own experience... The more you charge someone, the better "class" of customer you are going to get. When I was a web designer and I charged low rates I got lots of business, but it really wasn't the kind of business I wanted. It was clients who wanted a lot for a little and they questioned my judgement constantly because they were "nickle and diming" me to death. When business was good enough that I raised my rates (quadrupled), I got fewer clients but those clients I did get were the clients I wanted. Clients who trusted I was the professional who knew what I was doing. And in the end, I made more money from those fewer clients and more importantly, I worked less because I wasn't constantly doing revisions. I don't believe for a minute that I could have started my business charging high rates because I didn't have the portfolio to show the quality of my work. But once I established that portfolio, there was no excuse for not raising my rates.

Having learned that lesson, when I started my video business, I started with low rates to gain clients and build my portfolio. BUT, having been through it before, I learned to establish up front in a signed contract exactly what I was providing the client, so that when they question me or want changes, I am the one nickle and diming THEM for those revisions and that extra work. So if I work harder for a client, I'm being paid for that work, not giving it away.