Stepping on someone's toes?

This is a good discussion. I’m a little surprised that no one told you. I would think that if I had a clause like that in my contract then I would make it a point to verbally express it to the client. I guess it’s possible that the client forgot to tell you.
 
If you have a clause in your contract that spesifically allows you to take photos as well then it's the bride and groom that essentially broke the contract I would think, and they'd be liable. Mind you I'm not a lawyer.
 
lol I meant if the contract was to shoot video why would photos be included? Maybe the contracts could've been clearer and things coordinated better, especially with the client having both a photographer and a videographer. Learning experience if nothing else.
 
lol I meant if the contract was to shoot video why would photos be included? Maybe the contracts could've been clearer and things coordinated better, especially with the client having both a photographer and a videographer. Learning experience if nothing else.

Because I'm not going to want to say no if someone sees me holding a DSLR and asks me to take their picture. The idea is that video is the main deliverable, but if a photogenic moment presents itself, I should be able to photograph it and deliver that as a bonus (not guaranteed). But now I know to communicate that with the photographer beforehand.
 
Okay, I'm no lawyer so I can't comment on the exclusivity clause. I know for some shooters, weddings determine if they stay in business or not. So some of them are very territorial--even if they don't have a formal clause but the bride said "you'll be the only one there" verbally and they claim it as a clause.

My take is: if you want to stay on this shooter's good side, take down the photos and tell them you didn't realize they had a clause. Also, that you're not seeking to get business. It's got to be more than just taking the photos, otherwise it may come off as "ok, you caught me, I'll take 'em down" which doesn't do you much good in terms of the relationship. But ultimately you can't control how they feel about this.
 
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The exclusivity clause in this case really means jack to you. If anything the B&G would be in violation, not the videographer. It also really depends on what it states and what your contract with the B&G states.

I personally wouldn't share the images in that manner simply because it's disrespectful to the photographer, especially if they haven't shared them with the B&G yet, or simply because if they suck people might associate them with the actual photographer.

Otherwise, I wouldn't think twice about using them for my own personal promotions.

My last wedding, the DJ asked for some shots taken of him during the event which he used for promotion on his site. That might be a better way to handle it in the future...
 
I agree in regards to the value of reputation, but also just doing good business. I set up a phone call with the photographer this morning and was very accommodating to her. She was fine with me posting a couple of photos here and there. Her main issue was with me posting a full gallery (which may cause people to think I was the photographer), and the selling of prints. I totally understand that and agreed with her. I wouldn't want someone stepping on my toes selling prints of poses I set up either. It just didn't cross my mind, since it's just what I'm used to normally doing. Thankfully, she was very understanding, and my experience with her I think has made me a better artist, and businessman. I know now to communicate this topic with future vendors during my pre-event conversations, to ensure everyone's on the same page.

im late to the party. but yeah this.
 
Thanks for the input! I totally agree.
 
People asking you to take their picture is the kind of thing photographers often have to learn to handle. You'd need to let them know you're shooting video and direct them to the photographer. Doing sports/events I used to get asked all kinds of questions, sometimes I'd feel like what am I, the information booth?? I'd be cordial/friendly and direct them to Will Call, etc.

I wouldn't have gone into a concession stand and started selling hot dogs any more than you'd go over to the caterer's table and start serving food. So do you see how stepping in taking photos was doing the photographer's job? When I was taking photos for marketing purposes it would have been overstepping bounds to go to a practice and start lining up players for portraits for player trading cards - because that was someone else's job.

I don't understand there being an expection of shooting a photo to deliver as a bonus. It would need to be in the contract to shoot video and photos, even if taking photos was for your portfolio, your business marketing purposes. Using photos of clients for promotional, marketing, business use, etc. without it being in a contract and/or getting releases signed seems to leave you open to potential complaints from clients.
 
People asking you to take their picture is the kind of thing photographers often have to learn to handle. You'd need to let them know you're shooting video and direct them to the photographer. Doing sports/events I used to get asked all kinds of questions, sometimes I'd feel like what am I, the information booth?? I'd be cordial/friendly and direct them to Will Call, etc.

I wouldn't have gone into a concession stand and started selling hot dogs any more than you'd go over to the caterer's table and start serving food. So do you see how stepping in taking photos was doing the photographer's job? When I was taking photos for marketing purposes it would have been overstepping bounds to go to a practice and start lining up players for portraits for player trading cards - because that was someone else's job.

I don't understand there being an expection of shooting a photo to deliver as a bonus. It would need to be in the contract to shoot video and photos, even if taking photos was for your portfolio, your business marketing purposes. Using photos of clients for promotional, marketing, business use, etc. without it being in a contract and/or getting releases signed seems to leave you open to potential complaints from clients.

Can you try to be a little more empathic?

It's not all black and white. If the photographer is busy elsewhere and someone asks me for their picture, I'm not going to 1) say no to the requestors and make them think I'm a jerk and 2) bother the main photographer who's busy with something else with a random couple of guests who want a picture together, when I can take 2 seconds and do it myself.

I am confident most photographers would even appreciate me doing so, and in fact, the photographer in this case did thank me during our phone call for taking pictures that she wasn't there to take.

And again, my contract does provide for both and covers me as far as promotional usage goes. Sure, it's more work for me but I wasn't currently taking video, so I was available and happy to do so.
 
People asking you to take their picture is the kind of thing photographers often have to learn to handle. You'd need to let them know you're shooting video and direct them to the photographer. Doing sports/events I used to get asked all kinds of questions, sometimes I'd feel like what am I, the information booth?? I'd be cordial/friendly and direct them to Will Call, etc.

I wouldn't have gone into a concession stand and started selling hot dogs any more than you'd go over to the caterer's table and start serving food. So do you see how stepping in taking photos was doing the photographer's job? When I was taking photos for marketing purposes it would have been overstepping bounds to go to a practice and start lining up players for portraits for player trading cards - because that was someone else's job.

I don't understand there being an expection of shooting a photo to deliver as a bonus. It would need to be in the contract to shoot video and photos, even if taking photos was for your portfolio, your business marketing purposes. Using photos of clients for promotional, marketing, business use, etc. without it being in a contract and/or getting releases signed seems to leave you open to potential complaints from clients.

Can you try to be a little more empathic?

It's not all black and white. If the photographer is busy elsewhere and someone asks me for their picture, I'm not going to 1) say no to the requestors and make them think I'm a jerk and 2) bother the main photographer who's busy with something else with a random couple of guests who want a picture together, when I can take 2 seconds and do it myself.

I am confident most photographers would even appreciate me doing so, and in fact, the photographer in this case did thank me during our phone call for taking pictures that she wasn't there to take.

And again, my contract does provide for both and covers me as far as promotional usage goes. Sure, it's more work for me but I wasn't currently taking video, so I was available and happy to do so.
I really don't think empathy for you would seem appropriate in this situation. Empathy for the hired photographer who's contract doesn't allow for another photographer would certainly be appropriate. Empathy for the bride and groom who could find themselves in legal trouble over your photos would be appropriate. You were hired to take video, and the photographer was hired to take photos; it actually is quite clearly a "black and white" situation. Directing wedding guests who want their photos taken to the photographer is what you should do, as you continue to do the job you were hired to do and the photographer does theirs. The photographer asking you to take these photos down, which you should not have taken and should not have posted in the first place because it was not your job, does not make you a victim who should be asking for empathy in a situation where you don't deserve it. Yes, the photographer ended up thanking you for taking photos they were unable to capture, but that sounds more like they are being polite with you, considering this came only after they informed you of their exclusivity clause and requested that you take these photos down. What you did is essentially the same as Uncle Joe bringing his DSLR and snapping wedding photos when the photographer very specifically is not ok with this. As someone who I assume has shot weddings before, one would think that you might actually be more empathetic towards the photographer's request rather than assuming the role of a victim yourself and asking for others to show you empathy over this.

The photographer and potentially your clients are the victims here. Imagine if a bride and groom found themselves in legal trouble with the photographer for breaking an exclusivity clause in their contract because a hired videographer decided to take on the role of photographer when their job was to capture video, without taking any time to ask the hired photographer if it is ok for them to do so. That wouldn't be good for said videographer's business at all, because you can guarantee that the bride and groom would blame the videographer who put them into a legal mess with the photographer.
 
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I suppose I wasn't feeling all that empathetic when I posted... I mean, it wasn't so much about sharing photos, especially if the contract allowed for taking photos for portfolio use, but it seems like it was a mistake to try to sell photos not having been hired as the photographer. I can see usually being the photographer not thinking at the time about how photos taken might be used. At least it seems to have been resolved with the photographer in a positive way.

If people asked you to take their photos one way to handle it would be to tell them you're shooting video but you'd be glad to let the photographer know. Then do that, when there's a minute in between shots, let her know which table would like their photos taken, or walk with her over to their table - that could be a cordial way to handle it with the client's guests as well as with fellow vendors/others working the event that you're developing professional relationships with. I think usually people just ask for their pictures to be taken because they want to be included in photos of the event.
 
I suppose I wasn't feeling all that empathetic when I posted... I mean, it wasn't so much about sharing photos, especially if the contract allowed for taking photos for portfolio use, but it seems like it was a mistake to try to sell photos not having been hired as the photographer. I can see usually being the photographer not thinking at the time about how photos taken might be used. At least it seems to have been resolved with the photographer in a positive way.

If people asked you to take their photos one way to handle it would be to tell them you're shooting video but you'd be glad to let the photographer know. Then do that, when there's a minute in between shots, let her know which table would like their photos taken, or walk with her over to their table - that could be a cordial way to handle it with the client's guests as well as with fellow vendors/others working the event that you're developing professional relationships with. I think usually people just ask for their pictures to be taken because they want to be included in photos of the event.

I agree that selling photos was crossing the line. So like I said, I removed that option, and learned from it.

But I still don't think it makes sense to not take a picture if I'm not currently doing video. I could, at the very least, take a quick video clip instead, if I wanted to limit myself in that way, but I think as long as I discuss it with the photographer beforehand and come to an agreement, I'll be fine.
 

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