Still undecided on purchase...

RMThompson · Mar 6, 2007

Ok all, If you've read my panicked thread in the Beyond Basics forum, which I now realize was the wrong place, you know I am making a DSLR purchase VERY soon.

I have a few questions, and I promise to try to make my posts a little more straightforward, and wait answers before I ask another.

I need advice on my purchase which I am shooting a wedding in May with, and also my usual portrait photography.

Here are the qualifying statements:

A. I can purchase a Nikon D50 *new* body only in my area for $449.99, plus tax equals to 481.49

B. I can purcahse a REFURBISHED Canon EOS 350D from simga4less body only for 429.95, plus shipping which I would approximate at 20 dollars for a total of 449.95, but refurbished.

C. I can (hopefully) still purchase the Nikon D50 *new* with 18-55 Nikkor lens, (f/3.5 - something) for $550.00 plus tax for 588.50.

D. I can purchase a REFURBISHED Canon EOS 350D from sigma4less for 529.95 with 18-55 lens (f/3.5 - 5.6) for 529.95 plus shipping for a total of approximately 559.95

E. I can purchase the D40 with 18-55 (f/3.5 -5.6) for approxiamtly 559.95

So here are my questions:

1. Which should I buy, the age old question, Canon or Nikon? Although I have been using a Canon A610 for over a year, I still lean Nikon. It seems a more "professional" camera, even though neither qualify. Which is sharper? Which has less noise *REALLY*!!?

2. Assuming Nikon, D50 or D40. I don't think I would be buying older lenses, so would I really miss the AF features of D50?? I hear the D40's flash is VERY nice... am I wrong?

3. When shopping on eBay, how do I know which lenses are AF, or which aren't but will work with the D50 anyway? How do I know which are not compatible at all. I recently started looking for a 50mm 1.8 or better for the Nikon D** and I couldn't understand HALF of it.

4. What lenses are a REQUIREMENT for the wedding? I hear a 28 - 70, but FASTER than the f3.5s.... (other thread)... is that correct?

5. If I purchase an external flash, can I get away with the slower f/3.5 lenses??? (maybe an 18 - 55 f/3.5 and an 18mm f1.8, or even better a zoom f3.5 and 18mm 1.8?)

6. What flash? Besides the one you recommend, what else can I use that might be a bit cheaper?

7. What's the big thing I am missing?

I really need help, I don't want to make a bad decision, and I really cannot afford to.

My budget right now calls for around $700 - $800 dollars TOTAL on this purchase. I already have a decent tripod, and a case, so it's strictly camera/lens(es)/flash... (AND memory if I go Canon, since I have 1.5gigs of SDmemory)

What do you guys recommend??

snappin · Mar 6, 2007

Well just to muddy the waters even more for you. For ~$50US more than the prices you quoted for the refurbished Canon 350 you can get a new one here.

http://www.buydig.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=CNDRXTB

Thats where I bought my 350D and it was a great online shopping experience.

EDIT: for memory check www.newegg.com

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820208049

Big Mike · Mar 6, 2007

And to muddy the waters even more...Nikon just announced a D40x :shock:

The PMA show starts this week (March 8-11). This is when the camera companies will release their new models (if they haven't already been leaked or announced).

This may open some new options for you...although new models can be slow to make it to stores or are in high demand...but it will also drive down the price of current models.

Mike_E · Mar 6, 2007

An sb600 flash for a Nikon is $200 (as is I expect a comparable Canon flash), you won't want to use a popup flash on people no matter what and expect to be paid for it. If you go Nikon, go ahead and get the 50 because if you are on a strict budget, you can get a 135mm AI'd lens (older manual) at f2.8 (which is right at 200mm with the 1.5 crop)that will take beautiful photos. The 18-55 Nikon is supposed to be a very sharp lens and unless you will be shooting in a cave you should be OK. (if you get the flash, don't waste money on the diffuser, go to Wal-Mart to the hobby section and get a sheet of white foam. It's about the size of a sheet of paper and you cut it in half and put it around your flash with a rubber band then roll it up or down with the flash set to bounce off the ceiling to modify how much light goes forward). If you go Canon, I have no idea how you get any of the older (cheaper) lenses to work. mike

RMThompson · Mar 6, 2007

lol...

DAMN that's a good price on a 350D... but I have a feeling nikon lenses are cheaper?

Can someone answer this one:

3. When shopping on eBay, how do I know which lenses are AF, or which aren't but will work with the D50 anyway? How do I know which are not compatible at all. I recently started looking for a 50mm 1.8 or better for the Nikon D** and I couldn't understand HALF of it.

BAB · Mar 6, 2007

In some respects by focusing in part on Canon vs Nikon, you are making it a tougher choice for yourself. You have identified a budget of what you want to spend and that is a good start. Canon and Nikon are equally very good systems, so instead you should be focusing on which system offers you the lenses etc. that you will be using as well as which feels the best and easiest to you to use. Now you will be in a position to look at deals used & new that may be out there.

BAB · Mar 6, 2007

RMThompson said:
lol...

DAMN that's a good price on a 350D... but I have a feeling nikon lenses are cheaper?

Can someone answer this one:

3. When shopping on eBay, how do I know which lenses are AF, or which aren't but will work with the D50 anyway? How do I know which are not compatible at all. I recently started looking for a 50mm 1.8 or better for the Nikon D** and I couldn't understand HALF of it.

Cost difference should be minimal, but again the question, what works best for you? As far as question #3 goes, there is a wealth of information on the Nikon website about their lenses. A visit there will arm you with the information you need to shop intelligently on Ebay or anywhere else for that matter.

RMThompson · Mar 7, 2007

Anyone else care to chime in? IM still lost...

I am thinking Nikon D50 since I can use older lenses, but even after looking at the website, I dont know what lenses I can use and which I cant...

BAB · Mar 7, 2007

RMThompson said:
Anyone else care to chime in? IM still lost...

I am thinking Nikon D50 since I can use older lenses, but even after looking at the website, I dont know what lenses I can use and which I cant...

Per Nikon's website one would have "all functions with all AF lenses including AF-S, DX, VR & D-/G type and many functions on other Nikkor lenses. IX Lenses cannot be used"

RMThompson · Mar 7, 2007

I guess the thrust of my questions lie in this:

What is wrong with f3.5??? I mean I understand the idea of a wider aperature = less light needed for a sharp shot, but does 2.8 - 3.5 make a HUGE difference?

The lenses out there are MOSTLY f/3.5, or f/4, and I just don't understand why I need faster for shooting with a flash for a wedding.

Please someone explain why this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tamron-2-Lens-S...31QQihZ006QQcategoryZ3343QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

isnt a good deal.

or this even:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-D50-Digit...Z006QQcategoryZ122616QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

Or best of all:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-D50-Digit...Z006QQcategoryZ122616QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

Damn I might buy that anyway!!!!

snappin · Mar 7, 2007

RMThompson said:
...
What is wrong with f3.5??? I mean I understand the idea of a wider aperature = less light needed for a sharp shot, but does 2.8 - 3.5 make a HUGE difference?

...

I'm pretty much a newb but I think I can still answer your question since I've been doing quite a bit of researching myself. Its not the 3.5 vs 2.8 that gets you on that lens you linked its the range. If you look it says f3.5-5.6 That means at the shortest length it will go to 3.5 but when youre zoomed fully (when you need to be open the worst because your flash wont reach as far) is when it will only go to 5.6 (which is a HUGE difference from 2.8). The higher quality lenses will give you constant aperature say either f/4 or the f/2.8.

hope that clears somethings up.

RMThompson · Mar 7, 2007

snappin said:
I'm pretty much a newb but I think I can still answer your question since I've been doing quite a bit of researching myself. Its not the 3.5 vs 2.8 that gets you on that lens you linked its the range. If you look it says f3.5-5.6 That means at the shortest length it will go to 3.5 but when youre zoomed fully (when you need to be open the worst because your flash wont reach as far) is when it will only go to 5.6 (which is a HUGE difference from 2.8). The higher quality lenses will give you constant aperature say either f/4 or the f/2.8.

hope that clears somethings up.

Oh SNAP!

You're so very right. I feel dumb...

Damn!

Big Mike · Mar 7, 2007

The lenses out there are MOSTLY f/3.5, or f/4, and I just don't understand why I need faster for shooting with a flash for a wedding.

Well, F3.5 isn't really that bad...and F4 is only one stop slower than F2.8. However, the cheaper lenses start at F3.5 on the wide end and are something like F5.6 at the long end...and that's where it matters most.

It goes back to shutter speed. If our exposure is F2.8 at 1/60...that's borderline for hand holding. If the max aperture is F4, then we could only use a shutter speed of 1/30...and if the max aperture at the long end is F5.6, then the shutter speed is 1/15...which is way too slow to hand hold, especially at the long end of the zoom.

If you are using flash in a dark room, then you are right...it won't really matter because the flash can freeze the subject. However, photos that look like the people are in a dark room...typically don't look that good. What a good wedding photographer will try to do, is balance the exposure to get some of the ambient (background) exposed. Even though the flash can still somewhat freeze the subject...if there is a lot of ambient exposure...any camera or subject movement will still show up as blur...which means that a fast shutter speed is important...which means that a large aperture is important.

RMThompson · Mar 7, 2007

Mike, and anyone else:

look here. this fstop goes to a max of 4.5... is that terrible?

http://cgi.ebay.com/NIKON-D70s-OUTF...yZ107912QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Also this lens seems REALLY nice:

http://www.thecamerabox.com/product.asp?id=tal1735din&l=shopping

Would it work on a D50 (I should think so)... but what about a D40???

And, with a stroke of luck... would this be a COMPLETE kit:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Nikon-D80-Digit...00229978QQcategoryZ147174QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

EOS_JD · Mar 7, 2007

Lower fstop numbers = a larger aperture (lens opening )= more light coming in = faster shutter speeds = better

An f4.5 lens is considered relatively slow. The fastest zooms are usually around f2.8. Some lenses are more expensive but look at the Tamron 17-50 or Tamron 28-75 f2.8s. Well priced and sharp.

Prime lenses (fixed focal length lenses) are usually faster. Check out the 50mm f1.8 (very sharp and fast). Great for lower light photography.

If you don't know what aperture is, you really should not be shooting a wedding. Buy "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Petersen.