Sweet 16 photo advice, anyone?

CASAgurl25 · Oct 1, 2007

Hi!!!

I'm pretty new to this forum. Just signed up tonight. Anywho, let me just cut to the chase. One of my new ventures to date is photography. I have little experience with nature shots, landscapes, and even one Sweet 16 birthday party under my belt. I have been told many times that I could improve while others have said that I'm just great at it. SO now I went from playing around with it to taking it a little more seriously. :heart:

Having said that, I am now in between a contract and a client in getting my first real independent gig however for the time being (until Nov. 10th) everything is still up in the air. It's my partner's client and he asked me to do photographs. I think I should mention that this is a paying gig, and I've never met the woman--the mother of the birthday girl--but I will soon as a meeting is in the works to meet with her to revise all the details so I'm like 35% iffy on what she wants for her daughter.

Now to the photo portion of the deal. The mother for which I am doing the pictures, she's asking for a mountain out of a mole hill. For a rookie like me, this is asking a lot. Here's what she is requesting:

1) in-house family/Sweet 16 Court pictures--on the stairs and in the backyard.

2) one big church photo (bear with me if you can picture it). This consists of posing at the front of the church--family in the dead center of the pciture, whilst the family are surrounded by the Sweet 16 Court--girls on one side, boys on the other.

Oh! I should also mention that a picture of family and each couple is required AS they are coming into the church. The client also requested that I take a photo of the people in the front row-her Court, immediate family, as well as an intimate family portrait receiving the blessing of the priest.

It's a traditional Spanish Sweet 16. It's traditional to bless the girl that is taking her first steps into womanhood. That's the explanation.

RECEPTION

3) Picture of family that will be making their GRAND ENTRANCE into the reception hall. I am also under the understanding that the Sweet 16 Court will be making THEIR GRAND ENTRANCE marching into the reception and that under the client's request the march will followed by a rehearsed dance and that I am to get pictures of those. I ASSUME I CAN STAND ON A CHAIR AT THIS POINT IN A CORNER SOMEWHERE TO GET THAT SHOT?

4) The Lighting of the Candle Ceremony where family and friends special to the Sweet 16er get their individual shots.

5) One professional 14x16 photo of the Sweet 16er alone.

ANd then just general, basic action shots.

In closing, I think I should mention that this is my first tall order. Our client is already making a big request in the purchasing of a 12 megapixel camera to fulfill the requirement of professional shots. However, this part of the venture is already in the works as we have found a CANON A650IS that should perform well. I think I should also mention that I have covered a Sweet 16 before but nothing as planned out as all this, my last one was very non-traditional--cake, family, friends, 2 church pictures and then go home.
Furthermore, we're also having a little trouble with the pricing end of things:er:. My partner and I are NOT PROFESSIONALS, I am just a rookie but my partner is the semi-professional in this whole entire project. Now I have been told by several close sources that professionals get $5,000 for something of this magnitude, however given my rookie status, I should go for $1500 to $2000 for these pictures alone. The problem is I have no knowledge of what my partner was prepared to charge his clients from the start, and the information provided here is based on a second telephone conversation my partner had one week ago with the client. We had no previous knowledge of this tall order.

Now that we do have knowledge of this tall order, we are preparing ourselves to give our client an augmentation in price. My questions are: How much would non-professionals REALLY charge for something like this? AND what kinds of shots should I be producing for this gig?

A reply would be greatly appreciated as we currently both feel swamped and frustrated at the client's request. My partner specifically told her from the begining we are not professionals, and I guess she didn't get that part.

Much :heart: for all the photographers of the world out there and i will soon be posting some of my great works.

RyanLilly · Oct 2, 2007

Wow, If you don't think you can handle this, get out of it while you still can.

If you do feel you can do it, try to get into the spaces and plan your shots.

I think based on the information you have provided, you are probably in over your head. The client wants 12MP...this has not much to do with the quality of the photos and the point and shoot that you are looking at is probably not your best choice. A 6 or 8 mp SLR with good glass, and most importantly, a good photographer will yield much better results.

Peanuts · Oct 2, 2007

Ditto on the in over your head but kudos for doing all of the research and the likes, that is half the battle! Unfortunately, your weapon of choice probably won't make the cut. The 650IS is no doubt a great P&S however it won't deal well with harsh lighting conditions, low lighting conditions, and the variability isn't there. If I was in your position I would politely turn away this client saying you aren't prepared at this time to meet all of her requests to your high standards, however, here is a list of recommended photographers in the area etc.

The last thing you want is for it to not go as planned then ahve this client breathing down your neck giving you a bad name.

Best of luck!

Flash Harry · Oct 2, 2007

This event is very similar to a wedding as I see it and you have neither equipment or skills to provide the services required, get out of there, as a bad reputation for a tog from the start sounds the death nell as far as photography businesses are concerned, learn to walk before you start to run, this job is not about pressing a button and hoping for the best, you have to guarantee a high percentage of shots will be right, your P&S isn't up to the job. H

Johnboy2978 · Oct 2, 2007

I would have to agree. This sounds like a very big deal (actually it sounds like a tradition that has been blown completely out of proportion). At any rate, what it has evolved to sounds equivalent to a wedding event as the previous poster mentioned. IMO a family that is willing to make this big a deal over their little girl turning 16 is going to be very critical of everything that is done. It sounds to me like they would be very difficult to please no matter how good a job you do. Given that you are relatively new to this, I would concur with the previous posters and politely say no.

Who would pay $5K for something like this? That seems like robbery to me. I can understand a wedding photog charging something like that in places with higher cost of living but an event like this? Am I the only that thinks that it way out of line? Even $2K seems very exorbitant.

Mike_E · Oct 2, 2007

Yes, I'm sorry but a formal Latin sweet 16 is every bit as demanding as a Wedding (no, I have not done one but I have seen the proofs and heard the 'blow by blow'). The risks from a law suit is also the same should you fail to deliver images acceptable to the client.

You don't need 12 mpx exactly but you do need a good DSLR with good Fast glass- even in the day time most churches are dark places and you can't afford too much noise. They are most likely going to want some of the shots blown up to 16 x 20 and probably going to want a 40 inch as well. You will also need a back-up camera. That's two per shooter.

Do yourself a huge favor and give this one a miss. If you have taken and spent a retainer (I'm not saying that you have but am merely covering the possibility) Find a way to pay it back.

You can work your way into an event of this magnitude but this is not the place to jump in the water 'cause the rocks down there are sharp!

hammerhead_05 · Oct 2, 2007

I couldn't agree more with these guys. The optics are what is important here - High pixel ratingns aren't going to give you the amazing looking shots. Skill and optics will. Dont mean to sound harsh - but dang...can you imagine if you showed them your shots and they were upset/unimpressed.....i know i would feel like i had just kicked a puppy or something...lol
let this one slide by.........

|Brock|

Big Mike · Oct 2, 2007

Welcome to the forum.

I agree with what the others have said.

What they have requested, would seem fairly typical of a big event like this (very similar to a wedding). They probably want something very similar to what they have seen at previous events like this, within their family...and I'm guessing that most events like this were covered by professional photographers.

I will also agree that the camera you specified probably won't cut it. It may be fine in very good outdoor lighting conditions...but it will struggle in poor lighting. What about flash? You certainly shouldn't consider using the built-in flash on that (or any) camera. So an accessory flash will probably be a necessity.

Don't forget that any and all equipment should have a back up. The girl is only going to turn 16 once, and if your gear stops working, for any reason...you can't just tell them that you are sorry.

Taking photos of people is different from taking photos of landscapes and nature...as I'm sure you know. But when you are getting paid and are being relied upon to get the shots, and do a great job of it...it's a lot different.

I don't want to sound too negative. If you have considered these things and believe that you can do a good job, then that's great.

CASAgurl25 · Oct 2, 2007

hi, thanks for the great feedback. it's cool not knowing much about photography and then the fun part is learning about it with all the terminology i'm being thrown. your comments will be greatly taken into consideration. Thanks again!!

CASAgurl25 · Oct 2, 2007

This is exactly the same speech I gave my partner. I throughout the whole project had a bad feeling about this. I DON'T EVEN HAVE A PORTFOLIO!!! and I'm starting to build one only now. I do agree with the fact that my level of "expertise" is not on point with this request (AND THAT WAS COMMUNICATED FROM THE BEGINING).

However, I would like to announce that just this morning we did back out of this project. It was a hard decision, but we felt that the event was getting in WAY OVER HER HEAD as well.

The comforting thing to note is that I'm not dissapointed about any of this because from what I have researched, professionals charge a whole heck of a lot of money for something like this. It's my suspicion that the client wanted to get away with paying very little for an obviously tall order.

THanks so much for your input fellow photog!!!

CASAgurl25 · Oct 2, 2007

Well actually I got my messages mixed up. My father has a coworker who payed $5,000 for a professional photographer for the WHOLE DAY. Sorry about the confusion.

But it's done now and we've decided to back out politely while she still hasn't given us any $$$ for the job.

CASAgurl25 · Oct 2, 2007

hi!! i liked your feedback BIG MIKE. You sure sound like you know what you're talking about. I appreciate that and I will heavily consider what you have communicated in your post.

Thanks!!!

CASAgurl25 · Oct 2, 2007

Mike_E said:
Yes, I'm sorry but a formal Latin sweet 16 is every bit as demanding as a Wedding (no, I have not done one but I have seen the proofs and heard the 'blow by blow'). The risks from a law suit is also the same should you fail to deliver images acceptable to the client.

You don't need 12 mpx exactly but you do need a good DSLR with good Fast glass- even in the day time most churches are dark places and you can't afford too much noise. They are most likely going to want some of the shots blown up to 16 x 20 and probably going to want a 40 inch as well. You will also need a back-up camera. That's two per shooter.

Do yourself a huge favor and give this one a miss. If you have taken and spent a retainer (I'm not saying that you have but am merely covering the possibility) Find a way to pay it back.

You can work your way into an event of this magnitude but this is not the place to jump in the water 'cause the rocks down there are sharp!

Hi!!!! thanks. Your comments are greatly taken into consideration. :lovey:

Big Mike · Oct 2, 2007

No problem, I'm happy to help.

I'm glad to hear that you backed out...not because I thought that you would screw it up...but because you had enough courage to know when you were in over your head.

There is a good reason why professionals charge a lot for this type of thing...because it's very demanding/stressful and not nearly as easy as it sounds. On the good side, if you can do it well...there is a lot of money to be made.

My suggestion would be to find an established professional who is willing to let you assist them or tag along etc. On the job experience, without the pressure of being the primary photographer, is an invaluable learning experience. You may even be allowed to shoot and use those shots for your portfolio.

Also, if & when you do pursue this to the professional level, you may well find that there are plenty of clients who are looking to get $5000 results and only pay $2000. It happens all the time. Even an established pro may have turned down this client because of the potential problems that may emerge down the road. It may be a while before you have to deal with this but keep it in mind.

The best way to avoid the bargain hunting client is to have higher prices. Some clients will choose their photographer (caterer/plumber etc) based solely on price...and more often than not they are not satisfied. If you have high prices, you probably won't attract that type of client...and the clients you do attract, will come to you because they like your style. Of course, in order to do this...you have to have the goods to back up your high price.

Good luck