Swiss toil

[Karalee]

I gotta go with Voods, why would someone not want to make what is already a fab shot even better with photoshop. I just dont see that happening.

 

[Alison]

Ah well, guess this debate will be ongoing. I consider myself a photographer and PS my digital darkroom.

 

[voodoocat]

Ah well, guess this debate will be ongoing. I consider myself a photographer and PS my digital darkroom.

Oh NO! :shock: you must not be a true photographer :roll:

 

[Karalee]

Ah well, guess this debate will be ongoing. I consider myself a photographer and PS my digital darkroom.

Oh NO! :shock: you must not be a true photographer :roll:

\

And honest at that

 

[voodoocat]

Ah well, guess this debate will be ongoing. I consider myself a photographer and PS my digital darkroom.

Oh NO! :shock: you must not be a true photographer :roll:

\

And honest at that

you know i don't have any problems expressing what I really think I just find it annoying when anyone dismisses photoshop like that. Like photoshop is some magical tool that can turn a horrible snapshot into a masterpiece. I'm sure cavemen were claiming that painters who used brushes weren't true artists :roll: FINGER PAINTING PURIST ALL THE WAY

 

[hobbes28]

That can be a new signature block.

Real painters don't use brushes.

 

[photogoddess]

Ah well, guess this debate will be ongoing. I consider myself a photographer and PS my digital darkroom.

Oh NO! :shock: you must not be a true photographer :roll:

\

And honest at that

you know i don't have any problems expressing what I really think I just find it annoying when anyone dismisses photoshop like that. Like photoshop is some magical tool that can turn a horrible snapshot into a masterpiece. I'm sure cavemen were claiming that painters who used brushes weren't true artists :roll: FINGER PAINTING PURIST ALL THE WAY

You took the words right out of my mouth! Photographers have been using filters and manipulating images in the darkroom for years. A little dodging here, a little buring here, some more contrast over here... Photoshop is just the digital version of the darkroom. So, PS has made the process faster. Big Deal! You still have to compose your shot and expose it properly!

Walking into a garage doesn't make you a mechanic any more that owning a camera makes you a photographer.

 

[Alison]

Ah well, guess this debate will be ongoing. I consider myself a photographer and PS my digital darkroom.

Oh NO! :shock: you must not be a true photographer :roll:

Shhh....that was my little secret. Kind of like how I root for the red sox

If I play devil's advocate I can sort of see where the "other side" is coming from, by only if I take off my glasses and squint real hard. Certianly Photoshop is a powerful manipulation tool but, if the image was crap to begin with it's still going to come out crap in the end, but maybe just a different color. I was thinking about this on the way home from school. I only did my own developing and processing of black and white film, but I've seen color enlargers - they have little knobs that remind me of the color adjust settings in PS

[Rant] To me, photography isn't defined by what camera you use, or how you edit your photos. It's about taking a picture that means something. One that when you show someone else gives them an emotional response, helps them to see what you felt when you took the photo. Photography isn't just about documentation, if it was we could all walk around with little point and shoot cameras and line everyone up in the center of the picture and we'd be happy. It's about capturing the mood, or in my case as a portrait photographer, the essence of the person and scene. Our clients choose us because we take the time to get to know them, edit their images personally and treat them as if they our own pictures that we would display. While they do ask if we use digital, not one has decided to go elsewhere, and nobody has asked if we use photoshop. So, that's why I call myself a photographer and why my husband and I set up our business. We pour our hearts into our business, we both work full time jobs, care for our two young sons and I am also in school. I routinely stay up until the wee hours of the morning working on the images to get them just right. I love what I do, and I am proud to be in this profession. If someone feels that using Photoshop makes me less of a photographer, then that is their opinion and they are entitled to it. I don't feel that way and our customers don't feel that way. Thanks for reading [/Rant]

 

[StvShoop]

i definitely agree that photographers should use photoshop to enhance their images.

if the image was crap to begin with it's still going to come out crap in the end

but i don't completely agree with this. if you're wanting to have the end result look pretty much like something that could be directly viewed in real life, then what you say is true.

i think this is where most people draw the line between photography and "art". you can start with a crap image, then go craaaazy in photoshop, and end up with something beautiful. the difference is that it won't resemble something you would come across in the "real" world, and therefore probably doesn't fit under the category of "photography".

oh gosh, how many times is this argument going to be had on here

 

[Alison]

i definitely agree that photographers should use photoshop to enhance their images.

if the image was crap to begin with it's still going to come out crap in the end

but i don't completely agree with this. if you're wanting to have the end result look pretty much like something that could be directly viewed in real life, then what you say is true.

i think this is where most people draw the line between photography and "art". you can start with a crap image, then go craaaazy in photoshop, and end up with something beautiful. the difference is that it won't resemble something you would come across in the "real" world, and therefore probably doesn't fit under the category of "photography".

oh gosh, how many times is this argument going to be had on here

Probably about a millon more times at least. I agree with what you are saying. I think photography is a form of art, but not all art is photography. Kind of reminds me of my logic classes in highschool. And hey, you can go crazy in the darkroom, too!

 

[tsien]

To begin with, I gather that even a photo work which is not associated with any ostensible manipulation efforts through PS may not be a true rendition of reality. Yet photography as a form of art means more than mere recording of physical truth. If a photographer intends to creat a visual version of what he or she would like to create, I do not see why suitable technical means at disposal cannot come to his or her aid to achieve that end. Nor, for that matter, does the assertion appear cogent to me that an image which does not look aesthetically satisfying must result in an automatic failure on technical grounds alone.

My humble opinion is that photography can go very personal for each individual. What ultimately matters is which purpose or function pictures are meant to serve. I like this quote of Photogoddess: "Walking into a garage doesn't make you a mechanic any more than owning a camera makes you a photographer". With the most capable photo editing software in hand, photography remains a human exercise.

This in no way implies that I deem the photo I put at the top of this thread as a different "success". I showed the photo because I think there´s something wrong with it and I am not at all sure how to improve. On the other hand, it contains one of the small but joyful moments I hold dear out of my experience in the Swiss farm. I had imagined they would have kept all the time-honored traditions, but instead I saw machine milking suckers!

 

[StvShoop]

I had imagined they would have kept all the time-honored traditions, but instead I saw machine milking suckers!

lol i thought that was part of what you were going for

With the most capable photo editing software in hand, photography remains a human exercise.

woohoo! definitely. well said

What ultimately matters is which purpose or function pictures are meant to serve.

while i don't believe this is universally true, i think this can be a very significant determinant of an image's quality. the question of the image's use often seems absent from the comments i read on this forum :? not saying that's a bad thing, just an observation.
mostly, it depends on the submitter to initiate conversation about what the photo will be used for.

all this argument has gotten in the way of the critique!
are you still looking for input on the photo, tsien?

 

[terri]

all this argument has gotten in the way of the critique!
are you still looking for input on the photo, tsien?

Yeah, by all means, now that you’ve all had your collective pro-photoshop rants and eviscerated another member’s opinion, let’s get the thread back on topic! :roll:

This whole thread turned a bit offensive to me. What I find the most distressing here is that a moderator was the first to snag a member’s signature line, repost it and retort: “Bullshit”. He goes on to say the member’s signature is only an opinion. Well, no ****, Sherlock. Are we not allowed to state our opinions here now, if a moderator disagrees with them? Then the whole thread takes another tedious turn into the defense of the use of PS (yawn).

I am not much into using photoshop, but I certainly don’t bash those who do. Perhaps you’d all be more comfortable if the member had modified his signature to read: “I am of the humble opinion that real photographers are happier getting their images exactly the way they want them in camera and don’t spend too much time in front of their PC’s. I am So and So and I approve of this message.” In effect, that’s all this guy is really offering up. It’s just a difference in approach and how you want to spend your time manipulating your image to get it to say what you’re trying to say. Some folks will tote along numerous filters (to avoid playing with saturation and hue later in PS), interchangeable lenses (to get the image they want through the lens, and avoid a post-edit crop later), etc. It takes a lot more field time to do all that, and not everybody wants to do that. It doesn’t matter if you’re using digital or film when capturing the image. But I am getting heartily tired of the bashing of photographers who choose to limit their use of PS, even to see them ridiculed, as they are here, as “finger painting purists” simply because they elect not to reach for a great editing tool on their computers.

I personally don’t like spending a lot of time doing what is now called “post-production” work with my images in PS, but that doesn’t mean I don’t love the program for other things. You’ve seen my work, Voods. I would respectfully request you not refer to me, or others like me, as a "finger-painting purist" because I got the results I did without using photoshop. It was my approach of choice at the time of the shoot. A little mutual respect would be appreciated. Thanks bro!

 

[voodoocat]

This whole thread turned a bit offensive to me. What I find the most distressing here is that a moderator was the first to snag a member’s signature line, repost it and retort: “Bullshit”. He goes on to say the member’s signature is only an opinion. Well, no s***, Sherlock. Are we not allowed to state our opinions here now, if a moderator disagrees with them? Then the whole thread takes another tedious turn into the defense of the use of PS (yawn).

Great way to twist around what I said. I'm sorry but this is a no spin zone. First of all, Sherlock, I was not responding to someone's signature... I was responding to someone that brought it up. The way it was stated was as a fact, not an opinion. And that fact is false.

I personally don’t like spending a lot of time doing what is now called “post-production” work with my images in PS, but that doesn’t mean I don’t love the program for other things.

That is wonderful. I'm happy for you.

I would respectfully request you not refer to me, or others like me, as a "finger-painting purist" because I got the results I did without using photoshop. It was my approach of choice at the time of the shoot. A little mutual respect would be appreciated. Thanks bro!

You have me pegged!! I'm so jealous that you can get a great image without post processing. :roll:

 

[MDowdey]

what the **** are you guys arguing about? jesus....


md