Tack sharp group photo question

[NaturalLight]

Hi, I'm new here. first time posting. I've been wondering what some of you set your aperture at for a larger group of people of about 7? I know most people say an f8 or higher, but I've found that my images aren't as sharp as I would like even with a fast shutter speed. I shoot with a 50mm 1.4 and a 1.2 if I rent it. Thanks, I'd appreciate to know what your basic settings are. I shoot all in manual mode

 

[2WheelPhoto]

Are you using multiple off camera lights? I shoot around f/11 if i shoot a group indoors. I set the remote lighting for that aperture on most of my group shots.

 

[NaturalLight]

Are you using multiple off camera lights? I shoot around f/11 if i shoot a group indoors. I set the remote lighting for that aperture on most of my group shots.

Thanks for responding. I'm a strictly natural light photographer and I'm not familiar with remote lighting. I took the group shots outside on an overcast day. I'm a relative noob here, if you wouldn't mind explaining remote lighting I would appreciate it, Thanks!

 

[bratkinson]

You neglected to indicate what 'fast shutter speed' was. I'm guessing that you were shooting with too slow a shutter speed to stop subject (and your) movement.

Although the 'general rule' regarding action-stopping is shutter speeds of 1/<focal length> or 1/50th using a 50mm lens, I like to stay in the 1/100 and faster regardless of focal length. As I do a lot of indoor photography without a flash primarily with my 24-105, the faster speeds work regardless of where I am zoomed in or out.

The other question I have is...did you actually shoot at an f8 or smaller aperture (higher f-number)? Using the online depth of field calculator, at 50mm and 15ft away from your subject, your DOF at f8 is a tad less than 9 feet...quite sufficient. But wide open at f1.4, less than 18 inches. Depending on how your group is arranged, two rows of people, shot wide open, some faces will be at the edges of 'acceptably sharp'. Even those plus/minus 6-8" from the most-sharp plane will be a little softer, wide open.

Also, you didn't indicate what camera you were using. In my no-flash work, I've found that higher ISO speeds are a requirement to get the fast shutter speeds I need. Depending on which camera body you are using, higher ISO speeds will produce significant noise that will need to be removed. Depending on the algorithms used in your camera to make the JPG, that noise reduction could easily soften the focus a bit. Shooting in RAW, you get to have full control over the noise reduction, and can make choices specific to an image, rather than 'general rules' followed by the camera manufacturer.

 

[KmH]

What focusing mode and focus area mode were you using? Pretty much all digital images need to be sharpened post process.
Real World Image Sharpening with Adobe Photoshop, Camera Raw, and Lightroom (2nd Edition)

The settings I used depended on the size of the group, how they were posed, how far the background was from the group, the quality of and how much light was available.
I hated the flat light from overcast skies, and all the lighting problems overcast causes (like raccoon eyes). Reflectors, black flats, overhead diffusers, and other available light modifying gear is pretty much ineffective with overcast light.
Most outdoor available light offers multiple photographic lighting problems, so to save time and to make better images I usually used strobed light outdoors.

Available light photography done well still requires the use of light modifying gear, like reflectors, black flats, and overhead diffusers.

Shooting with overcast lighting is often difficult because the effectiveness of light modifying gear is significantly reduced making separating the subjects from the background and providing fill light almost impossible.
For overcast outdoor light I always used strobed lighting because it solved so many technical problems and made a much better looking final image.
dg28.com - photographer education

Doug Box's Available Light Photography: Techniques for Digital Photographers
Available Light: Photographic Techniques for Using Existing Light Sources
Chasing the Light: Improving Your Photography with Available Light (Voices That Matter)

 

[o hey tyler]

Although the 'general rule' regarding action-stopping is shutter speeds of 1/<focal length> or 1/50th using a 50mm lens

That's actually not the general rule for stopping action or movement within the frame. That is the rule of thumb for using a fast enough shutter speed to eliminate camera shake.

You're 50ft from a car, you have two bodies. One with a 35mm lens and one with a 200mm lens. If you're shooting a moving car moving roughly 10mph, shooting at 1/40s with the 35mm and 1/200s with the 200mm... The 200mm photo will be more crisp because the shutter speed is faster. Whereas with 1/40s, the car would be soft, if not totally blurry. With proper camera holding technique, neither will be fuzzy due to camera shake.

 

[TCampbell]

If you want specific advice, best to post a sample of the photo that's giving you trouble. Don't forget to also include the EXIF data (all the settings ... normally embedded within the image when the camera saves it.) Minimally we'd need to see the lens focal length, the f-stop, and the shutter speed. It would be good to know if you used a tripod.

This would allow a specific response as to what happened with that image and how you could shoot it to avoid the problem.

Some cameras even save the auto-focus point info into the EXIF data and some better software will show us exactly where the camera locked focus.

 

[tevo]

Thanks for responding. I'm a strictly natural light photographer

= You don't know how to use flash. It's not as scary as it seems!

Read this. You will not regret it

 

[Big Mike]

Welcome aboard.

There are a few possible reasons that your photos may not be sharp (showing us examples will surely help).
Shutter speed is certainly one reason. It needs to be fast enough to freeze movement of the camera and the subject.
Getting the subjects properly in focus (focus technique) is another issue.
And also, what I think you're asking about, is the Depth of Field. The distance (from the camera) that will be in focus. This is mainly determined by the lens aperture, but the focal length, distance to subject and format (sensor size) will all play a part in that as well.

You mentioned 50mm F1.4 and F1.2, so you certainly have access to very large apertures, which can give you a very shallow DOF.
So you really should have a solid idea of what your DOF will be, so that you can estimate whether or not your group will be inside it or not.
You can look up an on-line DOF calculator, but even better, you can get a DOF calculator App if you have a smart phone, that way it will always be with you.

 

[greybeard]

Given the name you have chosen, you must have some sort of attachment to natural light. I use a crop frame camera (Nikon D7000) and for groups I have used a 18-105 f/3.5-5.6. I start with it set to 35mm and then back up as much as possible before zooming out and I never go less than 24mm. I just don't like the perspective for groups. I set the aperture to f/8.0, use a tripod if needed and use a touch of fill flash. I'm happy with the results.

This one was shot at ISO 800 so it is a bit noisy if you pixel peep but at normal view it is fine.

 

[NaturalLight]

Thanks for all the info! Actually, I zoomed in on the picture and everyone does seem to be in focus. I guess I'm getting better at group shots. I shoot with a cannon mark 11. My settings were: iso 1000, 50mm f/6.3 1/320 and there were 7 people total in one row. I do need to start shooting in RAW though. Thanks again for all of your great info

You neglected to indicate what 'fast shutter speed' was. I'm guessing that you were shooting with too slow a shutter speed to stop subject (and your) movement.

Although the 'general rule' regarding action-stopping is shutter speeds of 1/<focal length> or 1/50th using a 50mm lens, I like to stay in the 1/100 and faster regardless of focal length. As I do a lot of indoor photography without a flash primarily with my 24-105, the faster speeds work regardless of where I am zoomed in or out.

The other question I have is...did you actually shoot at an f8 or smaller aperture (higher f-number)? Using the online depth of field calculator, at 50mm and 15ft away from your subject, your DOF at f8 is a tad less than 9 feet...quite sufficient. But wide open at f1.4, less than 18 inches. Depending on how your group is arranged, two rows of people, shot wide open, some faces will be at the edges of 'acceptably sharp'. Even those plus/minus 6-8" from the most-sharp plane will be a little softer, wide open.

Also, you didn't indicate what camera you were using. In my no-flash work, I've found that higher ISO speeds are a requirement to get the fast shutter speeds I need. Depending on which camera body you are using, higher ISO speeds will produce significant noise that will need to be removed. Depending on the algorithms used in your camera to make the JPG, that noise reduction could easily soften the focus a bit. Shooting in RAW, you get to have full control over the noise reduction, and can make choices specific to an image, rather than 'general rules' followed by the camera manufacturer.

 

[NaturalLight]

Thanks, good points. I posted what my settings were on one of the comments. I'll post a pic next time.

If you want specific advice, best to post a sample of the photo that's giving you trouble. Don't forget to also include the EXIF data (all the settings ... normally embedded within the image when the camera saves it.) Minimally we'd need to see the lens focal length, the f-stop, and the shutter speed. It would be good to know if you used a tripod.

This would allow a specific response as to what happened with that image and how you could shoot it to avoid the problem.

Some cameras even save the auto-focus point info into the EXIF data and some better software will show us exactly where the
camera locked focus.