Tanya

Rick50

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Back to some people photo's. I'm starting a project of doing some photo's of elderly people (OK, over 50). So my friend Tanya (the youngest at age 58) volunteered to be a sit in for me.
My thinking was to blast them with light very much like a Joel Grimes high key glamour shot. This would reduce the wrinkles and produce a more hi-key image but lessen the wrinkles.

So here is my light setup. I plan on getting some Westcott strip lights to replace the umbrellas but it's a start. Below the diffuser is another B800.
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So here is the first shot after some time working on posing. I did have to remove some glare off the glasses from the lower light. I just moved the upper light to clean up it's reflections. So my intent worked and I got few wrinkles but I miss my shadows. :-(
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And then I removed the lower light and one umbrella. But by this time I was getting tired and did not get a lot of poses but love the eyes and smile in this. And yes, the shadows are bringing back character.
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Once I get the soft boxes I'll try some different lighting before I get to the tougher subjects. Oldest is 85. She was very happy with these and even commented that they were the best she had ever had done.
 
Not bad at all! You're definitely on the right track; the main issue I see is that with those two shoot-throughs you've got uncontrolled light bouncing all over the place. Your key seems a bit specular to me; how far away from the model was it, and did you have the center deflector in the BD?

You're trying to get a clamshell effect, but I don't think you're getting any effect out of the bottom reflector, likely due to the angle. In the top image, it is almost a high key look, but with too much specularity. In the bottom one, the shadows and definition make it much better, but you've got an over-strong under throat shadow. You don't generally want to completely eliminate this as you have in the upper image, but not quite this strong either.

I think to nail this, you need to brink your key in closer and drop the power a bit. Once you get the strip banks, then set the one on the short side to meter about 2 - 2 1/3 stops below key and the one on the long side about 1.5 stops below. Also don't forget to have her push her glasses up on her noise; the eyes are almost at the top of the frame.
 
Not bad at all! You're definitely on the right track; the main issue I see is that with those two shoot-throughs you've got uncontrolled light bouncing all over the place. Your key seems a bit specular to me; how far away from the model was it, and did you have the center deflector in the BD?
I completely agree about the umbrellas. The main was pretty close and did have the deflector installed.

You're trying to get a clamshell effect, but I don't think you're getting any effect out of the bottom reflector, likely due to the angle. In the top image, it is almost a high key look, but with too much specularity. In the bottom one, the shadows and definition make it much better, but you've got an over-strong under throat shadow. You don't generally want to completely eliminate this as you have in the upper image, but not quite this strong either.
Yes, the bottom reflector failed so I put a light under it (it is a diffuser too) but should have backed it way down to allow some shadow.

I think to nail this, you need to brink your key in closer and drop the power a bit. Once you get the strip banks, then set the one on the short side to meter about 2 - 2 1/3 stops below key and the one on the long side about 1.5 stops below. Also don't forget to have her push her glasses up on her noise; the eyes are almost at the top of the frame.

Thanks much for the comments. It took us a bit of time to get the posing the way I wanted. In doing so I made her conscious of her smile and this isn't good. You want a natural look, not forced. So I need to work on this.

I did shoot tethered to my lap top so she could see the shots too in real time. This helped both of us but I didn't focus enough on the lighting. Next time I will spend more time on the shadowing so your comments on light metering are helpful.

I sent these to some friends and this one is the one people are liking so far.

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That's definitely my choice out of those you've posted as well. I think if you pull the highlights down just a tad and SMOOTH OUT THE WRINKLES IN THE BACKDROP ( :spank: ) this will be a great image.
 
Two umbrellas,either left/ right OR " stacked" in under/over is good for minimizing wrinkles and texture. Shoot the lens right thru the gap. Keeping the umbrellas onlyba foot or teo apart.Of course, need to watch eyeglasses for glares.
I like this latest image.
 
Two umbrellas,either left/ right OR " stacked" in under/over is good for minimizing wrinkles and texture. Shoot the lens right thru the gap. Keeping the umbrellas onlyba foot or teo apart.Of course, need to watch eyeglasses for glares.
I like this latest image.
Thanks Derrel. Keeping the glare off those large glasses with this lighting proved to be difficult. When I solved the top light the bottom light caused headaches. I ended up having to do it in post. The small glasses were much easier for glare but harder to keep the eyes inside the frame. Glasses can be tough!
We will shoot this again but I will try 2 light clamshell setup using a larger soft box rather than the beauty dish. I tested this on my mannequin head with good results. Produces real soft shadows on the sides and under chin.
 
Glasses can be tough!
Just remember: "Angle of incidence = angle of reflection. When you place your lights, imagine the light projecting from the flash tube as a stream of water. In you mind, follow that stream 'til it hits the model, then imagine where it will bounce off the model. If you're in the "bounce path" you'll get reflection on the glasses. If you're not, you won't. As well, if you are getting glare, often very small adjustments of head position or moving them on the nose will help a great deal.
 
As per the above, it is possible to place a BIG, flat light source very close to eye glasses/glassware, so that the entire glass source reflects the light. Think 6x6 foot panel from 4 feet:/instead of "glares" on the lenses, you would have a large, diffused highlight over the entire lens; with modern, coated eyeglasses, the reflection will be minimal. Large scrim or panel, close enough to 'cover' might be easiest, with an under-chin reflector, OR your biggest SB from very close might be able to similarly ,"fill" the entirety of the eyeglasses with a faint,soft diffuse highlight that looks natural and needs no retouching. BTW, in the example pic, looks like the dish is aimed too high, causing some under-chin shadow on the mannequin. But maybe that was by design?
 
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As per the above, it is possible to place a BIG, flat light source very close to eye glasses/glassware, so that the entire glass source reflects the light. Think 6x6 foot panel from 4 feet:/instead of "glares" on the lenses, you would have a large, diffused highlight over the entire lens; with modern, coated eyeglasses, the reflection will be minimal. Large scrim or panel, close enough to 'cover' might be easiest, with an under-chin reflector, OR your biggest SB from very close might be able to similarly ,"fill" the entirety of the eyeglasses with a faint,soft diffuse highlight that looks natural and needs no retouching. BTW, in the example pic, looks like the dish is aimed too high, causing some under-chin shadow on the mannequin. But maybe that was by design?
Interesting concept.
I remember having to raise the upper light to change the angle but the lower one was a problem mainly because I used a diffuser as a light modifier. This will all get fixed when I get my strip light soft box for the lower light. I'll get more movement.
 
Not bad.
If you can put more power on the background blowing it out, and put at least 2 or 3m of distance from the subject to background you'd blow it out of the water.
 
chuasam said:
If you can put more power on the background blowing it out, and put at least 2 or 3m of distance from the subject to background you'd blow it out of the water.

I assume that Sam is expecting a totally white background would make this look better, but instead of adding more light to the background, there is an easier way to get a pure white backdrop. The secret is key shifting. Try using less light on the foreground subject, and adjusting the exposure for the foreground subjects face. By exposing the foreground subject with less light on it, while maintaining the same background light level, the background will blow out to white.

When shooting in a very tight shooting environment like this, using less light on the foreground and exposing for the foreground, it is easier to avoid blowback or excessive Reflection from the background light coming toward the camera. This technique was taught to me by Dean Collins videos in the mid-1980s, and he referred to it as key shifting. This technique is especially useful when a gray paper background is being used, and you want to make it a solid, pure white. Key shifting in this manner is so common that Speedotron's portrait series of power packs have a 4 light setup in which the A-channels two lights have a 2-stop more powerful output than the B channel's two lights have.

A good example would be the Brown Line D604 power pack, in which the two lights in Channel A would give 180 watt seconds each, and the two lights in Channel B would each put out 45 watt seconds. The common use for this power distribution would be on Gray paper,using the two 45-Watt-second LOW-powered flashes to light the foreground, and in the back, the more powerful light channel's two flashes set for two more EV of power would light gray paper and Key-shift the grey up to Pure White in tone.

If the background is white to begin with it is not necessary to add a tremendous amount of light to make it a pure white tone; instead of adding light, instead use less light on the foreground and set the exposure to the foreground subject.
 
For monolight or speedlight users translating the above 4 light setup it would be the equivalent of having four lights, and for a gray background you would like to key-shift to white, the two backdrop lightds would be at full power which is 180 w-s, and the other two on the foreground subject would be set at quarter power output, which would be the 45 watt seconds each power ratio.
 
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