Teleconverter and/or Macro Extension for my 70-300mm or 50mm????

[TheFantasticG]

You're literally reversing a lens... how are you going to ...

I see. It's manual control of G type lenses as you already have that control over D type lenses because they have the iris ring. You have a lever that you move to open or close the iris. I gets it. Still easier to just buy a used Tamron 90mm or Sigma 105mm and get after it.

 

[480sparky]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Doesn't this thing allow for aperture control? I would be using an af-s lens without an aperture ring, though I do wonder how it's all connected.

Some extension tubes don't have the electrical connections, so the camera cannot communicate with the lens. They're pretty much useless when using a G-series lens.

But doesn't this one have it? Amazon.com: Fotodiox 52mm Macro Reverse Ring Kit with G and DX Type Lens Aperture Control, 52mm Lens Cap and 52mm UV Protector for Nikon Cameras: Camera & Photo

I'm a little curious how it works though.. it seems it's placed on the shooting side of the lens so how does that connect with the camera?? I'm gonna look for some Youtube videos..

Try setting a G-series lens by hand to say, oh, f/8. Lemme know how it works for you. When you reverse the lens, you lose both the electrical communication with the camera as well as the mechanical linkage that closes the aperture down.

 

[DGMPhotography]

Some extension tubes don't have the electrical connections, so the camera cannot communicate with the lens. They're pretty much useless when using a G-series lens.

But doesn't this one have it? Amazon.com: Fotodiox 52mm Macro Reverse Ring Kit with G and DX Type Lens Aperture Control, 52mm Lens Cap and 52mm UV Protector for Nikon Cameras: Camera & Photo

I'm a little curious how it works though.. it seems it's placed on the shooting side of the lens so how does that connect with the camera?? I'm gonna look for some Youtube videos..

Try setting a G-series lens by hand to say, oh, f/8. Lemme know how it works for you. When you reverse the lens, you lose both the electrical communication with the camera as well as the mechanical linkage that closes the aperture down.

So does this reverse ring add some sort of manual override?

 

[480sparky]

So does this reverse ring add some sort of manual override?

Nikon lenses will close their apertures to minimum when disconnected from the camera. It's a lever on the side of the lens mount that opens it back up, and when you take a photo that lever will move and allow the aperture to close for the photos.

The BR-6 emulates the camera mount and aperture actuation mechanism. So it allows you to open the lens to maximum aperture to focus and compose, then close the aperture down when you're ready to take a photo. You can close the aperture down with the lever that's built in, or with an old-fashioned mechanical cable release.

However, since there's no aperture ring on G-series lenses, you would have no way of setting the aperture. Yes, you can close it down partially, but you won't know what the aperture actually is, nor would you be able to repeat it.

Again, there's NO mechanical aperture control or electrical connection with the camera... you're working all manual here.

 

[DGMPhotography]

So does this reverse ring add some sort of manual override?

Nikon lenses will close their apertures to minimum when disconnected from the camera. It's a lever on the side of the lens mount that opens it back up, and when you take a photo that lever will move and allow the aperture to close for the photos.

The BR-6 emulates the camera mount and aperture actuation mechanism. So it allows you to open the lens to maximum aperture to focus and compose, then close the aperture down when you're ready to take a photo. You can close the aperture down with the lever that's built in, or with an old-fashioned mechanical cable release.

However, since there's no aperture ring on G-series lenses, you would have no way of setting the aperture. Yes, you can close it down partially, but you won't know what the aperture actually is, nor would you be able to repeat it.

Again, there's NO mechanical aperture control or electrical connection with the camera... you're working all manual here.

Yeah, but the Fotodiox I'm talking about says it works with G-series lenses, I'm just wondering how...

 

[480sparky]

Yeah, but the Fotodiox I'm talking about says it works with G-series lenses, I'm just wondering how...

Sure. It will operate the aperture blades, open and close 'em. But other than the lens' minimum and maximum settings, there's no way to know what aperture you're setting the lens to. It may be f/5.6, it may be f/11, who knows? And if you open the lens back up to maximum to refocus or recompose, you have no way of knowing if you're closing it down again to the setting you just used. It would be hit-and-miss, pure trial-and-error to get a correct exposure.

That's why many who shoot macros regularly use older D- or Ai-series lenses. They have an aperture ring with the f/stops marked and with click-stops. Want f/8? Turn the dial to f/8 and push the lever. 10 years from now, I can get that exact same f/8 using the same two steps.

 

[DGMPhotography]

Sure. It will operate the aperture blades, open and close 'em. But other than the lens' minimum and maximum settings, there's no way to know what aperture you're setting the lens to. It may be f/5.6, it may be f/11, who knows? And if you open the lens back up to maximum to refocus or recompose, you have no way of knowing if you're closing it down again to the setting you just used. It would be hit-and-miss, pure trial-and-error to get a correct exposure.

That's why many who shoot macros regularly use older D- or Ai-series lenses. They have an aperture ring with the f/stops marked and with click-stops. Want f/8? Turn the dial to f/8 and push the lever. 10 years from now, I can get that exact same f/8 using the same two steps.

Oh okay, I've gotcha now. Now I just wanna see how it works.

And D lenses are rather inexpensive now so I may consider getting one just for macro. Would 105mm be good? Does it make sense to reverse a macro lens?

 

[astroNikon]

Keep in mind if you buy an AF-D lens that d5x00 series cameras will not autofocus.
You need an in body focusing motor, which the d7000 and above have (and d70 - d90 or something like that).

As long as you use it for manual focus as a regular lens, no problems
Especially if you are turning it backwards .. all is good.

 

[480sparky]

Sure. It will operate the aperture blades, open and close 'em. But other than the lens' minimum and maximum settings, there's no way to know what aperture you're setting the lens to. It may be f/5.6, it may be f/11, who knows? And if you open the lens back up to maximum to refocus or recompose, you have no way of knowing if you're closing it down again to the setting you just used. It would be hit-and-miss, pure trial-and-error to get a correct exposure.

That's why many who shoot macros regularly use older D- or Ai-series lenses. They have an aperture ring with the f/stops marked and with click-stops. Want f/8? Turn the dial to f/8 and push the lever. 10 years from now, I can get that exact same f/8 using the same two steps.

Oh okay, I've gotcha now. Now I just wanna see how it works.

And D lenses are rather inexpensive now so I may consider getting one just for macro. Would 105mm be good? Does it make sense to reverse a macro lens?

The 105 2.8D works just fine as designed.... will go to 1:1 right out of the box. Scroll down to the Buy & Sell forum, there's one for sale now.

I couple my 50/1.8D to my 105 when working in the field. That gets me from 1.7:1 down to 2.7:1.

 

[DGMPhotography]

Sure. It will operate the aperture blades, open and close 'em. But other than the lens' minimum and maximum settings, there's no way to know what aperture you're setting the lens to. It may be f/5.6, it may be f/11, who knows? And if you open the lens back up to maximum to refocus or recompose, you have no way of knowing if you're closing it down again to the setting you just used. It would be hit-and-miss, pure trial-and-error to get a correct exposure.

That's why many who shoot macros regularly use older D- or Ai-series lenses. They have an aperture ring with the f/stops marked and with click-stops. Want f/8? Turn the dial to f/8 and push the lever. 10 years from now, I can get that exact same f/8 using the same two steps.

Oh okay, I've gotcha now. Now I just wanna see how it works.

And D lenses are rather inexpensive now so I may consider getting one just for macro. Would 105mm be good? Does it make sense to reverse a macro lens?

The 105 2.8D works just fine as designed.... will go to 1:1 right out of the box. Scroll down to the Buy & Sell forum, there's one for sale now.

I couple my 50/1.8D to my 105 when working in the field. That gets me from 1.7:1 down to 2.7:1.

What do you mean by couple? Do you reverse the 50 and use a step down ring?

 

[480sparky]

What do you mean by couple? Do you reverse the 50 and use a step down ring?

Reverse the 50 in front of the 105. No step ring needed, they're both 52mm. So a 52/52 macro coupler is all it takes.

 

[Derrel]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. Doesn't this thing allow for aperture control? I would be using an af-s lens without an aperture ring, though I do wonder how it's all connected.

Some extension tubes don't have the electrical connections, so the camera cannot communicate with the lens. They're pretty much useless when using a G-series lens.

But doesn't this one have it? Amazon.com: Fotodiox 52mm Macro Reverse Ring Kit with G and DX Type Lens Aperture Control, 52mm Lens Cap and 52mm UV Protector for Nikon Cameras: Camera & Photo

I'm a little curious how it works though.. it seems it's placed on the shooting side of the lens so how does that connect with the camera?? I'm gonna look for some Youtube videos..

Yes...the folks at Photodiox have devised both lens adapters and this new aperture control device for the G-series Nikkors that lack an aperture ring on the lens. And you're right...the aperture control device mounts onto the rear of the lens...on the lens mount itself, and then a lens reversing ring is used in the filter threads of the lens, and then the back side of that has the F-mount. The fine folks at Fotodiox have over the past few years, carved themselves a bigger and better niche in the filter/filter mount/lens mount/macro accessory category.

 

[480sparky]

Here's how reversing a lens works on a Nikon:

But first, let's do an autopsy. Take a standard G-series lens, and take it off the camera. Look at the big hole that you left on the body. You'll need to make note of two things: The aperture actuator (red arrow) and the electrical contacts (blue arrow)

.

The aperture actuator is the mechanism that tell the aperture that the shutter is about to fire and to close down the aperture blades. In this photo, it's in the 'open' position, holding the aperture open so you have a nice bright viewfinder to see, focus and compose with. But when you take a photo, this little lever moves down. (if you turn your camera on now, turn the mode dial to M, and turn off autofocus, you can actuate the shutter and see this little lever do it's thing!) More about this in the next photo.

However, this little lever doesn't set the aperture. With a G-series lens, the electronics in the camera do. And like anything electronic, there must be a connection between the camera electronics and the lens. This is accomplished with the arc of electrical contacts at the top of the lens mount (blue arrow). This is how the lens & camera talk to each other, and the lens gets power for it's electronics and focus motor. When you meter a scene and the camera (or you) decide to use f/8, that information is sent through these contacts to the lens. When the shutter release is pressed, the aperture actuator lever (red arrow) moves down, and the lens tells the aperture blades how far to close.

So let's look at the other half of the equation, the matching connections on the lens.

An arc of what looks like little ball bearings (blue arrow) is what mates to the electrical connections in the top of the lens mount on the body. This allows to lens and camera to talk to each other. There's also a little tab (red arrow) that is used to move the aperture blades.

Take any Nikon lens made since 1959 off a camera, and the aperture blades will close to their minimum. To open them up when the lens is on the camera, the actuator on the body pushes up on that little tab on the lens, holding the blades in the lens open (again, so you have a nice bright viewfinder to see with!). When you press the shutter button, several things happen very quickly. The camera sends a message to the lens, saying, "Yo! F/8 and be there!" through the electrical contacts. The lens gets the message, adjusts the blades to be f/8, and the actuator lever in the body drops, allowing the aperture blades to close to f/8. When the shutter closes, the actuator lever moves back up, the blades open to maximum, and you have that nice bright viewfinder again. At all happens so quick most aren't even aware of all of these, and you cannot see it anyway since the mirror has moved up which darkens the viewfinder while the whole process takes place.


Now, what happens when you remove a G-series lens from the camera with the idea to reverse it? Well, you completely lose both the electrical connection of the contacts, as well as the mechanical connection for aperture control. Yes, you can get a reversing ring sized to the filter on your lens, reverse it and it will mount. But the lens is now at it's minimum aperture since there's no camera-body lever to hold the blades open. Look in the viewfinder, and if you're not in bright light (sunlight), you'll hardly see anything at all.

Now you're probably thinking, "Well, I'll just take my finger and push that little tab on the lens and open the blades. Heh, heh... I'll show you how to do this!" Truthfully, you can. Push it (GENTLY!) as far as it will go, and you're now at the maximum aperture for that lens. But now, like all things photographic, you have a choice to make. Do you shoot at the minimum aperture, making focusing and composing difficult? Or do you hold the little tab so you're shooting at the maximum aperture of the lens, which makes it easy to focus and compose, but you have a dismally thin depth of field.

So you have another brainstorm! "I'll just move that little tab part of the way! Ha!" OK, so take your shot. Did the exposure come out? Since the camera can't really meter now, you're shooting in full manual. So you chimp the shot, make an adjustment and try again. Now the biggest problem with reversing G lenses rears it's ugly head. Where, exactly, did you hold that little tab? Now this little tab only moves a total of 3/16". And that 3/16" represents the entire scale of apertures available on that lens. So let's say you're using an f/2.8 lens that stops down to f/22. You've got 7 full stops. That works out to............ let's see..... 3/16 divided by 6..... I get 1/32 of an inch for each full stop. Move that little tab just 1/32" off, and your exposure is now 1 full stop off.

The solution? Either take a whole bunch of photos, trying to keep your finger from moving between frames, guessing and by-gollying, and you might get lucky.

Another solution is to get a lens with an aperture ring. Yep, they're still around, although the manufacturers are moving away from them. And there's millions of 'em scattered all over the planet, some of which come up for sale. Not only is the Nikkon 50/1.8 AF-D a solid prime-lens performer that should be in every serious photographers kit, but it also makes a great lens to reverse... even on DSLRs.

The first thing you'll notice is the aperture ring (green arrow).

When mounted normally on a DSLR, the camera & lens still communicate as always. But when removed from the camera, it is this ring that sets the aperture, not the camera. And since it's 'old-school' manual, you can set the lens to any aperture your little heart desires. Set it to f/8 and you've got f/8 all day long.

What you see between the lens and camera is a Nikon BR2A reversing ring. I use this one because it's solid machined metal, not plastic or aluminum like some cheap imitations. It has the same F-mount the lens does on one side, and a male 52mm thread on the other. Screw the filter-thread end into the threads of the lens, ....

.. and you can now mount the lens in reverse onto the camera using the adapter ring's F-mount (orange arrow).

This is why it's called reversing... the lens is on 'backwards, with the electrical contacts (blue) and aperture tab away from the camera. But since I have a lens with an aperture ring (green arrow), I don't need the electrical contacts to tell the lens what f/stop to use... I can set it with the aperture ring on the lens!

But, alas.... there's still a problem. Stopping the lens down to f/11 or f/16 still makes for a dark viewfinder. Solution: A BR6 ring!

A BR6 ring allows me to control opening and closing the aperture (manually). The ring emulates the camera lens mount, both with the traditional F-mount as well as that little aperture actuator lever that's inside the camera body (red arrows).

This ring is spring-loaded. So when it's attached to the lens, the spring holds the aperture blades open. If you look close, you can see the lens' aperture tab (red arrow) held by the BR6's actuator lever (pink arrow). As far as the aperture blades are concerned, they can't tell the difference between mounted on the camera body like normal or being controlled by the BR6.

Move the lever down (purple arrow), the actuator mechanism (pink arrow) moves out of the way of the aperture tab on the lens (red arrow). This allows the lens to close down to the aperture chosen with the aperture ring on the lens barrel.


So using the BR2A to reverse the lens physically, and the BR6 to control the aperture, it makes shooting macros with a reversed lens a breeze! Hopefully, this long, wordy post has made reversing a lens a bit more understandable.

Go forth and actuate!

 

[Derrel]

Great post, 480Sparky--now THAT ^^^^^ post is the way to go the extra mile and three-fourths!!!

I'm not familiar with the Fotodiox aperture controller device, but on their G-series lens adapters, there are seven, easily-repeatable click-stop detents, which allows the user to repeat the same f/stop reliably. But the f/stops are not "named", nor indexed, and one must count clicks to get back to say, click #3 or click #4. Perhaps they are using the same type of control system on this G-series reversing device? Not sure really.

 

[480sparky]

........I'm not familiar with the Fotodiox aperture controller device, but on their G-series lens adapters, there are seven, easily-repeatable click-stop detents, which allows the user to repeat the same f/stop reliably. But the f/stops are not "named", nor indexed, and one must count clicks to get back to say, click #3 or click #4. Perhaps they are using the same type of control system on this G-series reversing device? Not sure really.

Probably just a mechanical system. Stop the lens here, or here, or here... depending on the click-stop chosen. There's probably no way to determine what actual f-stop is chosen, as #4 would vary between lenses.