The death of C&C

[Overread]

In short, how does anyone know what the other person was thinking?

Sometimes its not about what the creator wants or wanted and its not about what those who see the art want/desire/think either. It's a messy ever shifting contextual line between the two.

Outside input is often good because sometimes we can run the risk that we set low standards for ourselves or that we set standards and expectations based on what we know; but being in a position where we don't know further potential. Of course this touches on self learning and some people are better at this than others; that said even those who are very good will typically see improved results and faster learning when getting outside input.

Different people will set different standards and, in moderation, exposure to different standards is good. It allows you to get a fresh take on what you create; to view things from a different angle. Perhaps you'll get new ideas or learn new methods. Or perhaps what you create isn't saying what you think it is when others take a look. Perhaps this means you learn some new methods or viewpoints or approaches and put them into your work.

I'd also say that when one chooses to come to a forum instead of a more gallery style site, then I would expect most want to talk about their photography. Sure we all love compliments, but sometimes questions; ideas; critiques; new viewpoints; impressions - this can all be avenues to talk about our hobby; to broaden horizons; to learn and to also touch on things a bit deeper than just "I like that".



Of course the learning process is one that can never end, but we all have points where we don't want such detailed feedback. When we do just want the gallery experience of showing off what we've done.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

I suspect it is an age thing, but I have long since given up technique and presentation in favor of content. It matters little to me how perfectly rendered the photograph is; to me it is what it is saying.

For example, this is a photo of Albert Schlechten, who was one of the first to photograph the Rockies around Bozeman MT and parts of Yellowstone. It would never win any photo contest but it speaks volumes.

In the digital world one is able to jazz up a photo any way they want and some of these are quite good examples of photographic art. However my vote will almost always favor content.

 

[charlie76]

In the digital world one is able to jazz up a photo any way they want and some of these are quite good examples of photographic art. However my vote will almost always favor content.

Every day I agree with this more and more. I turn on my Windows 10 laptop(s) every day to a new HDR or composite photo that looks great, but you know it's not real. I hesitate every time I think of opening an image in Luminar, just to see what it would do. Photography is so different these days. So easy to make a crappy photo look good. Sky replacement? Come one gimme a break. Call me old fashioned but I'll take a simple black and white over a super-saturated landscape any day. Not that I don't play with the HDR, but I dont like it!!

 

[sleist]

Took a quick look at the new C&C gallery. Was disappointed to see people continuing to use the "like" buttons there. Too bad that can't be turned off for that area of the site. I do wish you luck with it though.

 

[TreeofLifeStairs]

This is such a great thread. I love all the various viewpoints. When I first started on the forum there were a lot of great critiques that I learned a great deal from (both from my own pictures and from others’). Some were definitely hyper-technical and others were more about the art. I can appreciate both since the technical comes from a more objective stance and the the art more subjective. At different times I want to hear from either side. Where I currently am in my photography journey is not where I previously was and not where I will be. All this to say that I really appreciate the critiques and find it to be the most valuable part of this forum. So thank you everyone who gives critiques. It helps more than you probably know.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Charlie,

It used to disturb me that icebergs, skies, water, clouds etc. were far too perfect. But just as tin-types gave way to wet plates, then dry plates and roll film, we live in a time where photography has changed. I remember calendar photos of dogs at a table playing poker back in the late 1950's. Photographic manipulation is not new, it is just so easy. The truth is, post processed photographs have become the new norm. Though there are still a few that appreciate an "as shot" approach.

I will admit, I feel a bit cheated knowing that the scene in a photo I like, only exists in the binary numbers of some computer. Even though the film masters of old could manipulate a print to enhance what they saw, I can at least stand there they stood and shoot the same scene.

So getting back to the OP's comments. Critiquing a photograph today, is little more that admitting you do not understand what the artist was trying to present.

 

[BananaRepublic]

I actually thought this thread had be shut down.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

The thread seams to be alive and well. It is always good to hear other opinions.

And, if you agree with what the person is saying, you can use the "like" button and save time typing.

 

[charlie76]

I keep coming back here. This topic leaves lots of room for disagreement

 

[Grandpa Ron]

Disagreement maybe? I have found that most disagreements are due to diverse opinions about what is useful and what is fluff.

It is kind of like "Is the glass half empty or half full". From my engineering standpoint I see the wrong size glass for the task at hand.

 

[TreeofLifeStairs]

Disagreement is ok though; it shows there is a diversity of thoughts. But in disagreeing we need to give the other the respect we would want to be shown.

 

[K9Kirk]

I would like to add to this and this is just an observation. It seems to me the critique of pictures has not only become rather rare but critique has taken on another form. I see people telling others their pictures are good or great when it's obvious and sometimes painfully obvious that they're not. Is this just a sign of the times, to protect ones feelings rather than tell the truth? It's saddening to see because some people will never advance their skill level because of all the little white lies that were intended to spare their feelings.

 

[AlanKlein]

I would like to add to this and this is just an observation. It seems to me the critique of pictures has not only become rather rare but critique has taken on another form. I see people telling others their pictures are good or great when it's obvious and sometimes painfully obvious that they're not. Is this just a sign of the times, to protect ones feelings rather than tell the truth? It's saddening to see because some people will never advance their skill level because of all the little white lies that were intended to spare their feelings.

Not only that. But some people tell others their pictures are great so they will get back similar responses when they submit their pictures. It's like a mutual admiration society.

 

[limr]

I don't think this has anything to do with people being "so sensitive" or a decline in standards.

I think it's just a difficult time for literally the whole world, and people have a lot of other things going on right now that are taking priority. Maybe just don't have the bandwidth left to deal with writing out a critique to a photo. Or they want to contribute to their post count.

Just speaking for myself, I generally don't comment on portraits because a) they don't interest me, and b) because they don't interest me, I wouldn't even know to where to start to critique it. What the hell do I know about how to set up the studio lights or posing or whatever? So I stay mum. I also tend to avoid contributing to the threads of certain members whom I know will just ignore me, so what's the point? I'm wasting my energy. As for the rest, I will admit that I've just not had it in me right now to muster the energy.

Also, whether or not a photo is good is a very subjective matter, so saying that people are giving unwarranted accolades is unfair. One person's "great shot" is another person's "terrible shot." Tastes and interests vary wildly. I've seen plenty of gushing over photos that were technically good but also profoundly boring to me, so should I complain that all the other people who liked it were just being fake or oblivious or too scared to hurt anyone's feelings?

Critique doesn't always mean "point out the flaws." Positive feedback is also critique, and is also very important. It's just as useful to know what you did right as it is to know what you did wrong. And it's also easier for people to take the negative if the critique starts out with - or at least includes - the positive as well. And no, that's also not a "people are so sensitive these days" thing. That's just human nature. Yes, more detailed positive critique is more useful than just "nice shot" but it's not like it's totally useless for someone to know that at least someone else likes their photos and that could encourage them to take more and learn more.

Edit: one final thought. If folks want more detailed critique, then ask for it. Don't just sit back and wait for people to read your mind.

 

[AlanKlein]

I don't think this has anything to do with people being "so sensitive" or a decline in standards.

I think it's just a difficult time for literally the whole world, and people have a lot of other things going on right now that are taking priority. Maybe just don't have the bandwidth left to deal with writing out a critique to a photo. Or they want to contribute to their post count.

Just speaking for myself, I generally don't comment on portraits because a) they don't interest me, and b) because they don't interest me, I wouldn't even know to where to start to critique it. What the hell do I know about how to set up the studio lights or posing or whatever? So I stay mum. I also tend to avoid contributing to the threads of certain members whom I know will just ignore me, so what's the point? I'm wasting my energy. As for the rest, I will admit that I've just not had it in me right now to muster the energy.

Also, whether or not a photo is good is a very subjective matter, so saying that people are giving unwarranted accolades is unfair. One person's "great shot" is another person's "terrible shot." Tastes and interests vary wildly. I've seen plenty of gushing over photos that were technically good but also profoundly boring to me, so should I complain that all the other people who liked it were just being fake or oblivious or too scared to hurt anyone's feelings?

Critique doesn't always mean "point out the flaws." Positive feedback is also critique, and is also very important. It's just as useful to know what you did right as it is to know what you did wrong. And it's also easier for people to take the negative if the critique starts out with - or at least includes - the positive as well. And no, that's also not a "people are so sensitive these days" thing. That's just human nature. Yes, more detailed positive critique is more useful than just "nice shot" but it's not like it's totally useless for someone to know that at least someone else likes their photos and that could encourage them to take more and learn more.

Edit: one final thought. If folks want more detailed critique, then ask for it. Don't just sit back and wait for people to read your mind.

Good points. One thing I'll add is it's OK to comment if you don't have expertise in a particular type of photo or any art for that matter. Art is aesthetics. So people's opinions of how they affect them are the ultimate point of looking at art. You don't have to understand the craft and the do's and don'ts.

A photographer or any artist should listen to what people think -experts and laymen alike. From a business standpoint, you might be selling to the average non-expert. So it's important to know what turns them on a well as some guru. Everyone's opinion has value. Often, a layman reflecting on just the aesthetics, how the photo makes them feel, is more important than hearing about empty space, level horizons, and the proverbial rule-of-thirds.