The Pact

[MelissaMarieImagery]

I will add this to my sig

 

[Nolan]

This is a great pact to follow. I will be sure to adhere to it and link to in in my signature.

 

[Canosonic]

I'll put it in my sig. No offense , i hope.

 

[manaheim]

hehe, this thing still lives I see.

Haven't you heard that this is just an egotistical rant?

 

[lvcrtrs]

I'm going to make a bit of a rogue suggestion here that we write up a bit of a pact for people dedicated to some level of quality in the halls of TPF. This is just a draft, and I'm very open to edits. Consider this revision 1.

My thought is that those of us who are into this commit to the pact by signing this and putting a big bold link to this in their sig, and this becomes our modus operandi, regardless of whether or not it will make "everyone happy".

Maybe this is too extreme. I dunno. It seems like this is the way the forum ran before, and it seems like people want it back that way, so I figured I'd take a shot at it... as stated in the pact... be direct and honest with your criticism.

1. Giving Critique
   • Critique is given to help people become better photographers, artists, and occasionally business people.
   • I will offer honest critique when it is asked for.
   • I will critique the work, not the person.
   • I will not hesitate to be direct.
   • I will not hold back critique, even if feelings may be hurt.
   • If a shot has fundamental flaws, I will not hesitate to say so.
   • I will offer both technical and artistic critique when possible.
   • I will respect the requestors wishes if specified (such as if they only want technical critique)
   • Summary comments along the lines of "I like it!" or "Great job!" or "It sucks!" do no one any good and will be avoided at all costs. Opinions must be expressed with reasons and analysis.
   • Lastly, I will make a reasonable effort not to hurt feelings, but not at the cost of sacrificing the aforementioned statements.
2. Accepting Critique
   • Critique is given to help people become better photographers, artists, and occasionally business people.
   • I will accept critique graciously.
   • I may not agree with or use all that I receive, but I will still but I will still take into consideration all critique provided.
   • I will actively and openly discuss critique so received.
   • When appropriate, I will challenge those who critique me to gain a better understanding.
   • I will not attempt to discredit or insult those who would take the time to provide any form of critique.
   • I will not discount opinions without serious consideration.
3. Know Theyself
   • I hereby acknowledge that I am not Ansel Adams.
   • I will be mindful of my own skill level when speaking with others and actively point out where I am speaking of things I am not totally certain of.
   • I acknowledge that no matter how good I am, there is always going to be someone better out there, and there is always going to be something else to learn.
4. A Committment to Community
   • I am a part of this community and therefore a stakeholder in it and will act as such.
   • Anyone who acts shoddily on this forum is a detriment to this community. I will take it upon myself to make polite comments to those people and (in extreme cases) report them to the moderators if appropriate.
   • I will actively participate in trying to redirect discussions to improve the quality of discourse.
   • I will actively suggest and promote changes to the community to make it better.
5. Response to Smarm (Antagonism/Ingratiation/etc.) (I like the word "smarm")
   • If someone rails at a response where I am adhering to this pact, I will point them to this pact and suggest that they read it.
   • If someone rails at me and I deserve it, I'll apologize and correct my behavior.
   • I will do my best not to get involved in flame wars.
   • I will give everyone at least one chance to take back what they said or correct their approach.
   • If all else fails, I will actively employ the ignore feature and move on with my life.

Did I miss anything?

I like the way this is written. As some of you know by now, I am about the humanistic approach to all. This is done in a nice non-commanding rules or else fashion. Straight forward, non-cult, emotion removed informational piece. A well presented guidance document.
Vote yes x1.

 

[The_Traveler]

I just came across this thread and actually read parts of it. I infer the site was sold to new people and many of the moderators that were here when I was active 2006-2007 have since disappeared.

I left here (and became a mod elsewhere) just because of the very problems you are discussing, the lack of good c&c, the problem with beginner photographers and rudeness to other members.

My conclusion was then, as it is now, that you can't have a forum for 'experienced' photographers that has a large and constantly changing proportion of relatively new photographers. The quality of their pictures and the comments just dilutes the value of the better work.

The site where I am a moderator now was started by a bunch of pretty experienced photographers and we have a low percentage of inexperienced members posting and the generally high level of the posts is intimidating to newer photogs - and this works out well. We welcome new people but it is clear that we are committed to photography and not to the social aspects of the group. (although it is a chummy group, all one has to do to join is to post pictures and make comments.) Every picture is there for C&C.

We have very few rules and most of them are procedural dealing with image size, etc.; the prime rule about behavior is that posters and comments must be respectful to other members and their posts - and the mods enforce this. In general, our behavior is in alignment with the idea in your 'pledge' - and we don't tolerate members who violate our rules.

If the mods don't help to form the site by encouraging C&C and not tolerating abuse, IMO, you will have a continuing problem. These are the same arguments I made before I left and nothing happened then.

In any case, good luck to you.

Lew

 

[The_Traveler]

Quote-----------------
---Quote---
high level of the posts is intimidating to newer photogs - and this works out well.
---End Quote---
What a horrible thing to say! Elitism is a terrible trait to pursue.

Should you not be encouraging more people to enjoy your hobby? Should you not be excited about new people seeing your work? You can't have it all one way.
Quote-----------------------------------------------

This was posted and sent to me but then deleted but it deserves an answer.
What the writer is saying that we shouldn't have a small and skilled bunch of photographers because that is 'elitist.' That we should be a kind of social service agency bringing photography to the masses of beginners.

So we shouldn't be a high school for photographers but a kindergarten, primary, middle and high school all in one room - because to do otherwise would be elitist. Well, isn't that what you have here? How well is that working for the high schoolers?

To be honest, I, and probably most of the other members at that site, couldn't care less about getting useless praise from lots of beginners who don't know a good photo from a bad photo. I enjoy praise from people whose own work I admire.

The reality is that our average photographer is completely technically competent and is trying, not to learn where the WB button is, but to extend their photographic 'art'. This, in itself, is intimidating to beginner photographers because they don't see countless numbers of baby and pet photos - in focus but completely standard, they don't see pictures that they themselves would or could take and so most don't feel comfortable posting. The few 'beginners' we have who post are very serious about their work, are helped and accepted and they improve enormously quickly.

I do miss lots of the personalities I met here, many of whose screen names I remember quite well, but I've found a place where I am in the bottom half of technical and artistic capability and I can learn a tremendous amount. What I do miss is helping people make the transition from knowing little to knowing some more and so I stop at other places to give comments where I think I can be of help. However I always go back to my home - where I can get help and inspiration.

Lew

 

[usayit]

Hi Traveler..

I understand where you are coming from... (definitely... and seriously understand)

but

Just as there is no such thing as a town/city in which 100% of its residence are honest, there is no such thing as a online community in which 100% of its members are contributing properly. It gets increasingly worse as said community grows. To move an online community in that direction and maintain it would be to have a strict guideline of membership which is more of an exclusive club rather than a "community". A notion that seems counter to the TPF from the original beginning. So in essence... the TPF is a victim of its own success. To be an active member here, you have to be accepting (I have to certain extent... just as I have accepted my nosey neighbors next door).

As for me, I get my fix for for serious discussion about photography elsewhere... I remain here for the community aspect with both the good and bad alike. I do realize its easier for me than most. I gave up the notion of taking ~my~ photography too seriously because professional photography is in my past and photography as a hobby is my future.

There are amateurs that pretend to be professionals... I am an amateur that pretends to be an amateur.


I am glad that you found another place to call home, learn and foster your interests. Drop by once and in a while (if you can)... as I recall you had a lot of good contributions.

 

[The_Traveler]

Thanks, usayit, for the understanding.
Can you point me to any thread that tells me about the new owners and policy?

And what is this "Thanked x times in x posts."


Lew

 

[usayit]

Thanks, usayit, for the understanding.
Can you point me to any thread that tells me about the new owners and policy?

And what is this "Thanked x times in x posts."


Lew

My memory isn't great but I don't believe there was an official one.... the whole transition was done very quietly with a few members hanging around for a while then leaving shortly afterwards (HelenB being one.. bummer). There was a thread about it among members when someone noticed some changes in moderator assignments. It eventually lead to this thread from Chase:

http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/off-topic-chat/146404-tpf-updates-changes.html


The whole Thanked thing is a way for members to register their thanks for a helpful/thankful post. Unfortunately, it is being abused to a certain extent. I personally don't really care for it. Oh well.... one of those "community" things..

 

[The_Traveler]

Hi Traveler..

Just as there is no such thing as a town/city in which 100% of its residence are honest, there is no such thing as a online community in which 100% of its members are contributing properly. It gets increasingly worse as said community grows. To move an online community in that direction and maintain it would be to have a strict guideline of membership which is more of an exclusive club rather than a "community". A notion that seems counter to the TPF from the original beginning. So in essence... the TPF is a victim of its own success. To be an active member here, you have to be accepting (I have to certain extent... just as I have accepted my nosey neighbors next door).

We don't exclude anyone either by design or with requirements. It's sort of like a running club that is started by a group of good runners. Poor runners can't keep up or don't want to put in the effort and fall away - and that is the way it should be. The original core members wanted a higher than average level of ability and it is perpetuated.

 

[usayit]

We don't exclude anyone either by design or with requirements. It's sort of like a running club that is started by a group of good runners. Poor runners can't keep up or don't want to put in the effort and fall away - and that is the way it should be. The original core members wanted a higher than average level of ability and it is perpetuated.

Yup.. I understand.. just simply pointing out the difference of the "community" of the TPF versus a "club" that seeks a little more exclusiveness. Nothing wrong with that... just got to accept both as is.

To turn the TPF into something that some would prefer would mean turning the "community" into more of a club... with guidelines that well... sound like... "The Pact" in the previous posts of this thread.

 

[pbelarge]

But... but... I *am* Ansel Adams!!!!

:lmao:

This is not the make a wish thread...:mrgreen:

 

[manaheim]

Yeesh.

 

[skieur]

More like necro! :lmao::lmao:

skieur