This site is falling apart..

[Derrel]

I like the comments regarding the "Superiority" of the Pro's, do you lot think most pro's picked up a camera yesterday, because that's how it comes across, I was a hobby photographer for twenty years plus before I decided to make a career out of this game. Being older meant assisting was pretty much out of the question, I could hand print black n white but had no experience with colour hand printing, I enrolled in college and for two years learnt as much as I could.

A good portfolio is important to clients, but knowing how you get a good portfolio is equally important, before college, like several here my knowledge came from reading and shooting, some things were still confusing, college tidied these issues up in my case, my portfolio improved. A good portfolio does not come from shooting millions of shots to pick out the 12 or so good ones, think about the shot before you press the shutter release, plan the shoot and take what you need, I don't shoot a thousand at a wedding, I don't need to, I also don't need the extra work involved in PP, what I do need is a ninety percent capture rate, my knowledge gets me this, I shoot accordingly.

Critique, no-one likes it, I rarely give it, but see posters who were asking which camera to buy 3 months back, giving out big stick, usually wrong or at best confused, then others who never say what is wrong, totally unhelpful. If you don't want or can't take critique don't ask for it. In two years college every single image I submitted was given critique, over colour mostly, the reason was to train a students eye, even though my colour vision is fine the brain compensates for casts, so knowing what your looking for is the key.

A lot of those with experience decided to leave due to being flamed by inexperienced newbs, who, like the majority of this internet breed, think they know it all after being on a few fora or having read some amateur photography mag and went out and bought their consumer SLR, this was a grave loss to the forum so if your willing to learn shut up and take the crit in the way its meant, so you learn from mistakes, and, if you have little experience, also shut up, as the confusion spread by those who don't understand the written word very well is also detrimental to the forum as a whole.

Pro's have no superiority complex because they shoot with Pro spec cameras, have suffered the education system or any other reason, cameras are cameras, knowledge is about learning from mistakes and not making them again, if imparting some of that knowledge upsets ten people and teaches one person something of value then that's a success.

I look in here every day, see all kinds of posts talking of white balance, when its actually a colour cast, totally different things, unless the cast is caused by not using a filter with film or white balance correction in camera when shooting under artificial light. Then there's the multitude of posts referring to blown highlights on someones shot when the numpty is sat looking at a laptop screen or cheap uncalibrated monitor, these are just two instances where two words can help. Shut Up. Then, as others have already mentioned, its the shot of the sidewalk/tomato/oof anything, you don't want critique on these, the recycle bin is the only remedy, bin it and shoot something of interest before showing it off on the net.

My final say on this lot, is that just because you have a few lucky shots under your belt lets refrain from calling yourselves Photographers, building websites containing ten images and calling yourselves names like "creative photography" or other such $hit while asking the most simple questions on sites like this, your simply not such and such photography, your simply another camera user till your knowledge expands considerably, remember if you can't CONSISTENTLY produce images like those you show prospective clients, YOU ARE NOT A PHOTOGRAPHER. H

Flash Harry,
Normally you are the master of understatement, with brief, pointed responses that I find myself agreeing with about 92.7% of the time...but today you made a lengthy post that really taught me a lot more about you. Thanks for the insights and considered opinions. I like straight shooters,and you sir are one! Excellent comments,all in the Flash Harry style. I'd buy you a pint right this minute, if we weren't an ocean apart!

 

[Amocholes]

Well said Harry!

 

[GeneralBenson]

I'm going to have to agree that this site is falling apart. Over the years as I have progressed in my skill, this site has had less and less to offer me. NOw as a fulltime working professional, I find little here for me. I'm not trying to sound all "I'm better than everyone", but I'm just saying that I think this forum needs to do more to hold on to it's professional and advanced amateur users. I've watched over the years as people grow, learn more, become more of an expert, and then leave. Then I did the same thing. I feel like there's just no place on this forum for knowledgeable/advanced people.

There's the begginer's forum, where advanced shooters should be able to help out those who are trying to learn. But anything you say either gets drowned out by all the other beginner offering critque that they aren't qualified to make. Or you get ragarded as negative when you bring critique into a conversation that was nothing but high-flying compliments about how everything is great and awesome. Or any valid critique offered is dismissed as "style" by beginner who don't have a firm enough grasp on the basic rules of photography to start breaking them yet.

Then you've got the BTB forum, where advanced shooteres should be able to come and discuss with other advanced shooters, and have civil conversation. But instead, at any given time 50% of the topics belong in the beginner's section, and half of the people answering also belong in the beginners section. The BTB section has turned into the place where beginner's go to because they want their questions answered by people who know what they're talking about. But it's no longer a place for advanced people to dialogue together. The problem is partially that 'beyond the basics' is way to big of an umbrella. There should really be an Advanced section above the BTB section. And I think it shouldn't be open to everyone to post in. Everyone should be able to read, but only certain people should be allowed to post in the Advanced section.

Same goes for the Professional gallery. What should be a place where professionals can post work and be critiqued by other professional has turned into a place where anyone who has every been paid fora shot, or anyone who has a website and a watermark can post their photos, and consequently have them critiqued by people who don't know what they're talking about. There need to be more protection of the Pro Gallery. It should be for people who are working pro, making their living from photography, and only they should be allowed to critique eachother.

If the moderators/owners of this forum are smart, they should really be taking action to hold on to their professional and advanced users base. Other wise this forum will just forever continue it's current pattern of being swarmed by newbs, and somepeople occasionally geting better, progressing, becoming advanced, then realizing that there is no longer anything here for them; and leaving.

I really want to still like this forum, but there needs to be some considerable actions taken to both create a community of professional and advanced shooters, and then protect it.

Lastly, I think in general, the ability to give critque is a right that should be earned, and there should be different degrees of it; not something that is given to every single person who signs up for an account. I don't know exactly how that would work, but it needs to happen. I don't think it should be strictly from post count, or even anythign more than slightly based on post count. But maybe a portfolio review or even a review of critiques given. But when everyone has a voice, no one has a voice.

 

[inTempus]

Add some noise to make it look like it was shot at ISO 3,200.

I knew it was missing something!

How about noise AND lens flare?? SWEET! I'm opening a gallery with this baby. Now all I need are 40 more images as good as this one and I'm going to be big time.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[Derrel]

InTempus,
I gotta' hand it to you!!!!! Man, the noise looks superb, but the lens flare---dude!!!! That totally rocks! Seriously! Killer PS work on that tomater!

 

[supraman215]

Lastly, I think in general, the ability to give critque is a right that should be earned, and there should be different degrees of it; not something that is given to every single person who signs up for an account. I don't know exactly how that would work, but it needs to happen. I don't think it should be strictly from post count, or even anything more than slightly based on post count. But maybe a portfolio review or even a review of critiques given. But when everyone has a voice, no one has a voice.

I think this is a great idea. Who would be the judge and jury to determine this list? Should the advanced/pro also have to be a supporting member? Something like this would add to the maintenance of the site. I know that when I post for C&C I really want the top guys, and people who frequent this site know who they are, to review it.

 

[Dmitri]

Over the years as I have progressed in my skill, this site has had less and less to offer me. NOw as a fulltime working professional, I find little here for me. I'm not trying to sound all "I'm better than everyone", but I'm just saying that I think this forum needs to do more to hold on to it's professional and advanced amateur users. I've watched over the years as people grow, learn more, become more of an expert, and then leave. Then I did the same thing. I feel like there's just no place on this forum for knowledgeable/advanced people.

To paraphrase: "I've taken all I can, but I can't be bothered to give back"?

Lastly, I think in general, the ability to give critque is a right that should be earned, and there should be different degrees of it; not something that is given to every single person who signs up for an account. I don't know exactly how that would work, but it needs to happen. I don't think it should be strictly from post count, or even anythign more than slightly based on post count. But maybe a portfolio review or even a review of critiques given. But when everyone has a voice, no one has a voice.

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

Oh god man, PLEASE tell me you were joking!

 

[tirediron]

Lastly, I think in general, the ability to give critque is a right that should be earned, and there should be different degrees of it; not something that is given to every single person who signs up for an account. I don't know exactly how that would work, but it needs to happen. I don't think it should be strictly from post count, or even anythign more than slightly based on post count. But maybe a portfolio review or even a review of critiques given. But when everyone has a voice, no one has a voice.

Just so I'm clear... members should not be allowed to offer critique until they've proven their knowledge and skill through the critiques they give?

 

[Overread]

Lastly, I think in general, the ability to give critque is a right that should be earned, and there should be different degrees of it; not something that is given to every single person who signs up for an account. I don't know exactly how that would work, but it needs to happen. I don't think it should be strictly from post count, or even anythign more than slightly based on post count. But maybe a portfolio review or even a review of critiques given. But when everyone has a voice, no one has a voice.

Just so I'm clear... members should not be allowed to offer critique until they've proven their knowledge and skill through the critiques they give?

I understand his point - that the site should build toward a pro critique section that is moderated and where those who give the crits are accomplished photographers.
Even in that case though people still complain about crits, but the overall quality can go up.

The thing is something like that needs a lot of management to setup and run effectively. Also I would say that something like that is best when it works alongside letting regular people also give their viewpoints. Sometimes a thought or opinion from an "untrained" person can reveal things that the "trained eye" misses or takes a different way.

 

[pbelarge]

It is very lonely at the top of the world......................

 

[Gaerek]

Add some noise to make it look like it was shot at ISO 3,200.

I knew it was missing something!

How about noise AND lens flare?? SWEET! I'm opening a gallery with this baby. Now all I need are 40 more images as good as this one and I'm going to be big time.

Thanks for all the help!

The sad part is, you probably could open a gallery with this photo and just call it pop art. I've seen things very similar to this hanging in galleries. People will buy anything as long as you invoke Warhol...

And on topic with the thread...not sure how I missed this one. C&C, as long as I have been here, hasn't really changed much. It's a matter of sifting through what's been given to find the gems. I breached this topic (though, never mentioned the site falling apart) in a thread several months ago, that's linked in my sig below (click on "Giving or receiving C&C? Click here first!). The problem is this. C&C not only helps the photographer asking for it, but the one giving it as well. Being able to C&C someone else's work means you are able to critique your own work. I am far more harsh when it comes to my work than people are to my work, and I am to theirs. But there was a time (before I made it to TPF) when I would literally post everything I had on my memory card, ask people for critique, then get defensive when people thought it sucked (because, of course, I thought it was good stuff). I've grown up a bit since then. I look at some of that early work and I can't believe I actually liked it. Even today, I rarely show anything I have, not because it's terrible, but because it's not up to my standard.

Anyway...giving C&C is good, regardless of skill level. You just need to make sure you actually know what you're talking about before posting. For example, I've never used external lights. I know how they work, in theory, but I'll let the people with actual experience give the comments, and I'll stay out. People need to simply develop a filter.

 

[Josh66]

I think we should have some sort of Pact, you know, a list of guidelines about giving and receiving CC here at TPF that can be used by all!

:lmao:

I promise to stop insulting members whilst I'm drunk.

I knew you were a drunk.

Take every post I make with a grain of salt... I wouldn't say I'm a drunk, but I have been drinking when I wrote pretty much every post I've made here...

I only drink when I'm bored and there's nothing better to do (not many things are better than having a beer, lol) - and I only post on forums when I'm bored, so - there is almost always a beer sitting next to the keyboard while I'm posting here (or any other forum).

If I say something stupid, just assume I'm drunk, lol. Especially if it's late. If I'm posting after midnight, I'm completely hammered.

Somehow, alcohol doesn't seem to affect my ability to type...

 

[kundalini]

Take every post I make with a grain of salt... I wouldn't say I'm a drunk, but I have been drinking when I wrote pretty much every post I've made here......

Say hello to my littls friends.......

:taped sh:​

 

[Josh66]

I miss Yuengling... I see a bottle there...

The closest we have down here is Shiner Bock, which is good, but not quite the same.

edit

OMG - when did I break 6,000 posts ... I didn't even notice.

 

[MattxMosh]

This thread is too long to read, but has anyone noticed it's in the wrong section?