Too much grain

smithdan · Mar 20, 2014

Test drives on a Voigtlander Vitomatic have come up with a bit more grain than I would like.

First outing, HP5+ :

so next roll FP4:

And well, pretty lumpy.

Both developed in D76 1:1, with the usual care on temp time agitation and all that stuff. Scanner isn't to blame as negs from files coming out OK. Heard that D76 at 1:1 dilution results in grain but this much? Also stock solution is approaching its best before date but still within specs.

Can anyone shed any light on this and is D76 a compatable developer for Ilford film.

Thanks D

compur · Mar 20, 2014

HP5 at what ISO? You don't need ISO 400 or higher outdoors in daylight. Try FP4 or Pan-F.

Rick58 · Mar 20, 2014

I used to use D76 1:1 as my standard developer and always got good results. I've never done any experimenting, but I've always heard that 1:1 delivers better shadow detail than stock and also produces a sharper neg.

compur · Mar 20, 2014

Me too.

Josh66 · Mar 20, 2014

You'll learn to like it, lol.

Try a slower film next time?

Rick58 · Mar 20, 2014

Josh66 said:
You'll learn to like it, lol.

Try a slower film next time?

Yeah, I was never happy with the grain with 35mm and 400 film unless there were no other options due to conditions. 100 or 200 would have been a better choice for any of these shots.
I have to say that doesn't look right for even 400, and you did say your dev wasn't hot.

smithdan · Mar 20, 2014

Yes. Grain (reasonable grain)= sharpness. Used to develop in microdol x but now all supplies have to be mail order D76 being dry ships without problems. Wonder if the shelf life might be a problem. Ordering some stuff and will try a fresh batch.

Also Compur, I have to use what I can get and save the slower film for the cameras with limited shutter speeds.

smithdan · Mar 20, 2014

Josh66 said:
You'll learn to like it, lol.

Try a slower film next time?

FP4 shot blueprint @125 just as grainy hence the headscratching. Motel on FP4.

Derrel · Mar 20, 2014

smithdan said:
Josh66 said:

You'll learn to like it, lol.

Try a slower film next time?

Click to expand...

FP4 shot blueprint @125 just as grainy hence the headscratching. Motel on FP4.

No offense intended, but that looks like dog do-do...THAT is wayyyyyyyy too coarse of a grain pattern for a 100 to 125 ISO speed film! I mean...YEESH! THe grain is...awful...and judging by the burned out sky, I think you might have over-developed the negatives...I mean...wow...

Not sure why the grain is so BIG... I know Kodak's Plus-X Pan (a 125 ASA B&W panchromatic film) would look MUCH finer-grained; Kodak T-Max 400 looks about as fine-grained as Plus-X pan, due to the different, T-grain type emulsion the T-Max films use.

I do not mind grain, but a medium-speed film like FP4 ought NOT have golfball-sized grain until you get down to a reallllllly major crop.

What kind of agitation method are you using? How long are you developing? Do the negatives look like the inside of a coal mine? Are you overexposing the ***p out of the film perhaps???

smithdan · Mar 20, 2014

Dunno Derrel. This is enough to make a guy shoot digital!

Didn't do anything different than any other time. Checked the Gossen against a selenium Kalmar and the meter on board the Vitomatic, all is good. Development temps and times and agitation as per the box, 20c, 11 min, 10 sec /min. Crops not silly large.

Just 50 grit grain and not enough image info for the scanner to get a handle on.

Only thing I figger is might be something in the water that's killing the developer on the shelf faster than manufacturer's specs, and wondered if anyone else ran against this problem.

Rick58 · Mar 21, 2014

I'm relatively new to the digital game, but could this have something to do with the appearance...

You have a whole bunch of pixels crammed into a REALLY small photo. I looked at your irrigation shot, and starting at the upper left and looking across, the grain is not evenly distributed. In fact, it's so course, the upper left doesn't even look like grain.
Just throwing stuff out there...

smithdan · Mar 21, 2014

Think what I have to throw out is the developer. Something is causing a premature death, blaming the local water supply so perhaps buy some distilled for the next mix of stock at least. If I shot more then storage wouldn't be as much of a problem. Prefer liquid concentrates but post office does not.

These films are quite forgiving in exposure latitude, that plus a "test drive" on a new to me camera causes me to push its abilities to see what she'll do. However looking at the stuff shot over the last 10 weeks, grain has increased over time so with everything standard except the camera and time, time gets the blame.

Thanks for all your comments