Tourist or Terrorist?

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How much does it cost to prevent an earthquake? Volcano eruption? Tsunami?

Woopse prevent was the wrong word. Disaster management is the right one. The fact remains the same. Number of terrorist attacks in Australia nil, number of natural disasters in the last 2 years alone which have totally exhausted all of the possible support services we have in just the state of Queensland 3. Entire towns have been lost in this state before the government realised suddenly that the QSES was grossly underfunded.

Personally, I would rather give up some First Ammendment Rights then have myself or family blown up, shot,

A saying I read the other day: "A man who gives up his civil liberties for the sake of security deserves neither."

I have to say the mentality of your comment saddens me deeply that there are people in our society who now are willing to give up their freedom for security. But I guess it did work so well in 1984.
 
A saying I read the other day: "A man who gives up his civil liberties for the sake of security deserves neither."

Benjamin Franklin... see my post above for the exact words... brilliant and timeless.

He was a ladies man too...
:eyebrows:

Every so often, I visit his grave to show a little respect. Boy could we use wise men like him today...
 
BTW... Whenever I have a similar discussion with people, I like to remind them that the 1st amendment covers more than just freedom to speech. Being that this is a forum on photography we tend to focus on just those aspects that directly impact photography.

It guarantees freedoms of religion, speech, writing and publishing, peaceful assembly, and the freedom to raise grievances with the Government. The first one.. freedom of religion was one of the core reasons that people came to America in the first place. The last one brings accountability to the government.

All of these rights are diluted once you set the precedence to override or trample just one item.

The tragedies of 9-11 are scary and fresh in our mind. Don't kid yourself that this was the only such kind of event to occur in history. Awful things have occured several times... often resulting in a reaction later examined to have even worst consequences. Many world tyrants came to power in such a manner....
 
The next time you or I have something to protest, the only place that it will be allowed will be the free speech zone within a jail cell.

If I were that paranoid, I'd find another place to live.
 
First, read about so called free speech zones:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zones

focus on the controversies involved.

Then look at the picture of one such zone:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:First_amendment_zone1.jpg

Now tell me that doesn't look like one step away from a jail cell...


Privileges and rights are very easy to give up but extremely hard to get back. It took a colony of immigrants to declare war on the world's strongest armed force to obtain those rights.
Not a whole hell of a lot different from conditions at the 1968 Democratic convention.

It must be difficult going through life with such paranoia. If I were you, I'd leave.
 
Not a whole hell of a lot different from conditions at the 1968 Democratic convention.

...


Unfortunately, however, the threat is vastly different today than it was in the day of Wyatt Earp.

So which is it Socrates.. are times changing or are they staying the same????


My point is that 9-11 and the events of recent years do not need to violate and take away freedoms we have enjoyed for decades. Times have not changed.. the world has not changed.. it is the same crap happening through all of history. Similar 9/11's have occured throughout history. We must just improve things without violation of precious rights. Claiming that 9/11 is such a unique terrible event is pretty arrogant American notion... and that we all should resort to giving up our rights is just plain stupid.

Those American Japanese Citizens probably never thought in their entire lives that their own government would force into internment. So you thinking that I could end up in jail for a protesting against the government is paranoid?

I'm off the soap box... exit stage right..
 
I am not an American, and do not necessarily share the fear (or paranoia) of getting IDed. I actually believe that ID cards should be issued, and that everybody should be required to carry them. The thing I dislike is when they start getting overly intrusive, frequent, or just plain rude and time-consuming. Of course, there is fine line between these two, and it is often crossed. However, reading these forums it does seem to me that many people in the US accent the state's role as a necessary evil much more strongly than it's role as a regulator and protector. Probably a cultural difference.
The things described in the newspaper article are of course silly (as if that's going to help against "serious" terrorism), but since they are requesting cooperation, rather than enforcing it, I'd say it's not a major problem or infringement.

Unfortunately, however, the threat is vastly different today than it was in the day of Wyatt Earp. The threat has gotten worse continually as has the impact of a successful intrusion. I watched the Twin Towers collapse but not on TV. The scene was actually a bit worse before the collapse when the bodies (alive?) were tumbling down.

The "threat" could have been remedied much better if there were more "paranoid" people in the past when the roots of todays threats were not so deep. Most of the threats today are a consequence of US policy, although one might argue that the threats are just the necessary evil for all the goods (from a US point of view) that came out of these policies - cheap oil prices, market expansion and growth etc.
September 11th was something to be expected, after stepping on the toes of so many people around the world. If the merits outweight the demerits of the policies is for US citizens to decide.
 
I really have to say, for those who don't see what to me seems so obvious, is that this administration has exploited (that is an understatement - is there a word with more weight?) 9/11 to the absolute fullest and used it to their advantage in order to further their agenda.

They have preyed on people's fears and sold *some* of us on providing protection from those fears, resulting in loss of freedoms and setting unheard-of precedents in government.

Less government? What a joke. On the one hand they talk about less government when it suits the issue of the day, on the other hand they assure us they need unfettered power to "defeat evil" or some other abstract notion.
 
The threat has gotten worse continually as has the impact of a successful intrusion.

Largely due to our playing "puppeteer" and imperialist policies of the past 50, 60 years or so which benefit our interests to the detriment of other countries.

No, I'm not saying America is evil, but when you look at our policies of the past half century you have to wonder if they really are to our benefit in the long run?
 
Socrates- You really have nothing to add or do other than stir up aggravation do you? How worthless. I'm totally surprised anyone here responds to your provocative and incendiary remarks.

How much does it cost to prevent an earthquake? Volcano eruption? Tsunami?

How much does it cost to prevent a flood?

I couldn't find that situation in the link you posted. Perhaps you can direct me accordingly and show me where it has, in fact, taken place.

Are you able to respond to my question or am I correct in that it's one hell of an exaggeration, if not an outright lie?

Incorrect. It was not done for "their own protection."

I wouldn't say that because it's not true. I will, however, repeat that the original allegation is incorrect. They were NOT imprisoned for "their own good" and that's NOT how it was "sold to the public."

Why would I say that?

You're probably also a Rangers and Giants fan!
:wink:

You lost First Amendment rights well over thirty years ago when they put X-ray machines in airports. Don't misunderstand me... I'd love to return to the "good old days." Hell, my Social Security card states that it's a violation of federal law to use the number for identification!

Unfortunately, however, the threat is vastly different today than it was in the day of Wyatt Earp. The threat has gotten worse continually as has the impact of a successful intrusion. I watched the Twin Towers collapse but not on TV. The scene was actually a bit worse before the collapse when the bodies (alive?) were tumbling down.

If I were that paranoid, I'd find another place to live.

Not a whole hell of a lot different from conditions at the 1968 Democratic convention.

It must be difficult going through life with such paranoia. If I were you, I'd leave.
 
OOOO boy.. that is a very DANGEROUS statement. We took away practically ALL rights of Japanese citizens for their own protection for the very same reasoning.

Seriously.. .read history more often.. there are numerous instances of history prove your statement dangerous.

Ben Franklin

"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

AND I believe the US government got sued and paid for it.

Personally, I have no problems with "internment of Japanese citizens/nationals" during WWII. Yeah, "for their protection" is just an excuse, and may even have a bit of truth ... BUT you must agree it was the safest course of action. Only valid arguement anyone can have is that the same action was not duplicated against those with "German/Italian ancestors".

You are comparing actions against a race of people with actions against people with cameras. Too often photographers/journalists use "First Amendment Rights" to defend their actions.

I find it sad when nations we consider "enemies" no longer need to spy on us. All they have to do is turn on CNN.

Like I said, I am not saying who is right or wrong - am saying, I do not mind giving up some rights to ensure my family is safe.
 
Like I said, I am not saying who is right or wrong - am saying, I do not mind giving up some rights to ensure my family is safe.

And how are we safer?

We've got half the world pissed off at us due to our administration's complete arrogance, foreign policy and tough talk...

"Bring it On" amongst other classy gems for a president to say...

terrorist acts have increased in the past few years.
 
...
Like I said, I am not saying who is right or wrong - am saying, I do not mind giving up some rights to ensure my family is safe.

Yet another ass with lips.

I can respect differences in opinions between photographers. But I suspect you're just another non-producer, a poser and judging by your remarks, a racist with nothing better to do than troll forums and cause trouble.

What in the hell are you even here for? Post some photos and show you have a stake in the game.
 
Largely due to our playing "puppeteer" and imperialist policies of the past 50, 60 years or so which benefit our interests to the detriment of other countries.

No, I'm not saying America is evil, but when you look at our policies of the past half century you have to wonder if they really are to our benefit in the long run?

Yes, that's exactly what you did say. I am, however, wondering just what empire you suggest that we're building. Exactly what land have we appropriated? Yes, our military is in Iraq at the present time but are we populating the land with our civilians? Will it become the 51st state? Did that occur with Korea? Where did that occur in the last hundred years?

If anything, we have moved away from the imperialism that we practiced in the 19th century. Yet the threat has become worse. Perhaps imperialism IS the correct route after all.
 
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