Upgrading my workstation & color managment.

[optofonik]

I recently moved and decided to upgrade my "digital darkroom" by purchasing an additional display to do softproofing and editing for print output. Since I was working out the new layout for my workstation it seemed like a good time so I've purchased a NEC Spectraview II P221W. I still have two Acer X193W+BD displays that I'll now use for program menus but would also like to use them with Firefox for web output proofing to get a sense of what the average display will produce (for those of you who know about recording studios the Acers would be analogous to Auratone speakers). Even though most average displays are not calibrated I would like to profile the Acers for an "all things being equal" approach. Since the NEC puck is calibrated to the P221W it is "right out" for use with the Acers.



My Acers have been away for warranty work which has halted my progress for a couple of weeks. I seem to have developed upgrade fever since I shipped them out and have begun considering more substantial changes:



1) Another NEC monitor that is Spectraview compatible but is an IPS panel, the LCD2690WUXi2, to compliment the P221W's PVA panel which would give me a total of four monitors: two for editing and printer softproofing and two for program menus and web proofing. Both the NECs would be run from the same dual head card and the Acers will have their own dual head card (till now each Acer had its own dual head card).


2) A second profiling solution for the Acer displays.


3) Printer calibrating hardware and software for profiling various papers






Since I'm going to spend the time to set up a new space I may as well do a substantial upgrade so I'm not reconfiguring ergonomics and trying to fit things into the space at a later date. My questions are:


1) Am I just in the grips of upgrade fever and considering something ridiculously complicated


2) Will the puck and software for the P221W work with a second "Spectraview compatible" display or is it dedicated (or locked) to the single P221W


3) Would the Spider3Studio bundle be adequate for profiling the Acers and my printer or should I consider the X-Rite Xtreme (I've looked at the ColorMunki and I want software with more control over the process which the Spyder3Studio and Xtreme both have). Seems there could be a point of diminishing returns when one considers the price difference and both require a similarly high level of attention to detail when creating profiles




There you have it. A textbook case of upgrade fever on display for all to see (and comment on)


Did I mention that the Epson 3880 has also caught my eye


Thanks

 

[Garbz]

What you are saying does sound very complicated. There's a few things that do make sense though. You do want to upgrade to an IPS panel. As a 2690WUXi owner myself I can wholeheartedly say getting that screen (or rather it's successor 2690WUXi2) is a good decision, but beyond that ....

My question is why profile a screen that intentionally is used to show off a crap result? At the very most I think if you get your puck, put it on the Acers on a white screen and use the settings to adjust the colour temperature. Otherwise you're contradicting the purpose of the screen itself.

The pucks themselves are independent. What you need is software that recognises what you're doing. The SpectraView software is tied into NEC screens, and given that it updates the LUTs in the screens rather than plays with the video card, and there's a drop down selection in the software so it should work just fine with two NECs. What I'm not sure about is calibrating multiple screens. Lots of software typically falls down when it comes to that.

Anything will be capable of profiling the Acers, the only time you need to be careful if you're profiling a wide gamut monitor, and the Spyder3 is good for that, the Spyder2 is not.

So my recommendation is you're going nuts upgrading your profiling hardware, are you missing something more important? How do you view the prints? Consider getting yourself a calibrated lightbox if you're into printing. Otherwise I don't see why you would need anything more than 1 uber calibrated monitor, and if you must the rest of the monitors only sufficiently set to the same colour temperature. That said if you're getting a solution that does check the prints too, use that on the Acers, that makes sense.

 

[optofonik]

Garbz,

This color management stuff IS driving me nutty!

The menus on the Acers seemed fubar but I'll wait and see what they can do to fix them in Texas. Perhaps when I get them back just doing the color temperature is the ticket.

The PVA panel is new and I had a hard time deciding between that and an IPS because I do mostly B&W or duotone but it seems that if one uses both types of panel to crosscheck shadow detail then such problems can be avoided.

I like the light box idea but I've never used one. I was also considering using Solux bulbs for room lighting. Do you think using such bulbs eliminate the need for a light box?


Thanks for the insight.

 

[Garbz]

Not really. The lightbox I'm talking about is perfectly controlled in colour temp and brightness, and can be adjusted using the same calibrator and computer you already have.

I find it strange that you went with a PVA screen for black and white photos given the "black crush" effect of the technology where the tone very near the blacks actually goes off slightly when you look straight on (though I don't know if that's fixed in modern panels).

If you need to crosscheck to get an idea of how something really looks like then you're doing it wrong. You should have 1 and only 1 monitor that you have the upmost faith in. By all means use the acers to see how the average joe may interpret your picture (and a good trick is to tilt them slightly down, it's amazing the number of people who look at screens on a downward angle and see all sorts of details in the shadows that look nasty). Once your screen is calibrated it's a good idea to check a set of test images: LCD monitor test images to see how calibration went.

 

[optofonik]

Garbz,

According to at least one test, when calibrated/profiled with SVII, the P221W-BK-SV display's grayscale performance is excellent and gradients are distinguishable across the scale (is the word "calibration" when referring to LCD panels a misnomer in that only CRT screens can actually be calibrated?). I can say that shadow detail before and after profiling is discernible. After profiling I compared viewing angles and observed very little loss in shadow detail (I really had to look hard for it but, yes, it is there). Before profiling I didn't have to look as hard to see shadow detail drop off.

I'm thinking the way to go may be to purchase another P221W, use two P221Ws for my dual screens, get a third screen that's IPS, perhaps the PA241W and be done with it. All of them can be profiled with the puck and SVII software that came with my original P221W-BK-SV. I prefer the native resolution / pixel pitch of the P221 over the Acers, anyway. Everything displayed on the Acers is just a bit too small for my taste; a side-effect of getting older I'm sure. I can still make room for one of the Acers to check web output and sell the other. No such thing as too many monitors, right?

The crosschecking thing comes from working in audio production. A mix is always checked on several monitors, cheap boom box types, car stereo, etc, before mastering to get a sense of what "Average Joe" will be hearing; decisions are always being made about the target audience.

My assumptions about display image quality are that, generally, an IPS panel's contrast doesn't resolve deep blacks well resulting in the appearance of better shadow detail, a PVA panel's contrast produces deep blacks but at the cost of obvious and measurable shadow detail when viewed straight on, and the average TN display is a disaster akin to MP3s - too many quality issues to mention. A setup using a combination of PVA, IPS, and TN seems like the ideal setup and the price point of NEC monitors makes it a relatively affordable proposition. A setup with 2 PVA, 1 IPS 1 TN, SVII & puck is less than $2000US. Less than a single monitor from some other manufacturers.

If the monitors are properly profiled and I use manufacturer supplied printer/paper profiles I should be good for prints with no need for 3rd party profiling hardware; the single Acer will let me proof web output.

As far as lighting I'm now considering some daylight balanced Kino Flo bulbs that the film geeks light with at work.

"Bobs yer uncle", maybe.

 

[Garbz]

(is the word "calibration" when referring to LCD panels a misnomer in that only CRT screens can actually be calibrated?).

Define Calibration. For your Acers you're not actually calibrating the monitor at all, but instead feeding it a different signal to compensate for it's problems. The result is correct colours but at a reduced performance level since the screen is now not able to fully display it's range of possible colours. For the NECs it's different. You have a 12bit LUT from which the output is chosen to closely resemble the incoming 8bit data. The result is providing you don't change the colour temperature on most monitors you still have the full range of colours. And ... even on some monitors if you do change the colour temperature you can still display all 16.7million discrete possible combinations.

After profiling I compared viewing angles and observed very little loss in shadow detail (I really had to look hard for it but, yes, it is there). Before profiling I didn't have to look as hard to see shadow detail drop off.

Naturally, the calibrator looks at the screen head on and is working around the "black crush" nature of the PVA panel. Just make sure you look at this screen head on. You still get some variance with viewing angle on PVA screens.

No such thing as too many monitors, right?

Honestly I wouldn't know what to do with more than 2 so I'm not the right person to ask for this one

The crosschecking thing comes from working in audio production. A mix is always checked on several monitors, cheap boom box types, car stereo, etc, before mastering to get a sense of what "Average Joe" will be hearing; decisions are always being made about the target audience.

Close but I think the analogy is off slightly. The cross checking in audio is done after the initial recording. That master tape is always done on a single usually very high end system who's frequency response is never called into question. The final CD / Vinyl / Radio / Internet mixes then are usually what is cross checked on your nasty speakers.

This is what I'm getting at. Your photo that comes off the camera in RAW should not be considered as having left the recording studio yet. You are still working on a master with a setup you have complete faith in at this point. If you see variances in monitors here then one of them is wrong. Once you have the photo you the artist and professional are 100% happy and confident with, then you should be looking at making those final mixes that will look good for those dweebs out there who don't realise their monitor's tone is all fubar . I stress this point because I don't want to see you posting a thread in a months time complaining your prints don't match your screen. One monitor you have faith in, otherwise why bother calibrating.

My assumptions about display image quality are that, generally, an IPS panel's contrast doesn't resolve deep blacks well resulting in the appearance of better shadow detail, a PVA panel's contrast produces deep blacks but at the cost of obvious and measurable shadow detail when viewed straight on

Contrast should not have any impact on the ability to resolve. PVA screens have more contrast than IPS screens, but to what end. The real point is having 256 individual steps between the whitest point and the darkest point which are each discernible from the other, and more importantly are consistently spaced and remain consistently spaced with variances in viewing angle. The rest is up to calibration. This is why IPS screens should always be the number 1 choice for photography, especially larger screens. Sit 1m away from a 26" and you have about 45deg difference in viewing angle between the left and right hand side of the screen. So while your calibrator fixes the black tone issues in the middle, it doesn't help if your viewing angle is not perfect. IPS screens still trump here.

Just a note on calibration. If something is wrong it doesn't matter as long as it is adjustable and repeatable. This is what we're going for with lookup tables and screen technologies that offer consistency across viewing angles. A funny analyser engineer said to us when calibrating a gas chromatograph at work "I'll make it perfectly repeatable then you tell me what you want it to read."

"Bobs yer uncle", maybe.

No bob was the engineer. ... Well no Robert, but still I couldn't resist

Don't worry about a light box if you're not going to by psycho anal and calibrate your printer output. The good lighting in the room may be just fine, providing it's dimable/bright enough to allow you to compare your screen results. By the way, what colour is the room

 

[optofonik]

Good points all around. I think we're on the same page with the crosschecking thing. I think I'm going to work for awhile with the two PVA diplays then pull the trigger on and IPS later. By waiting a bit I'll still be working on better screens than I have been and I'll notice the difference more when I start working with IPS.

The room I'm in is painted off white but my workstation is being set up almost like a DIT tent in that there will be a Duvetyne curtain hanging behind me to block out any bounce light or reflections. To either side of me are shelves with gear, nothing that should cause any reflectivity problems. Kinda like a not so light tight darkroom with no toxic fumes.

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm looking forward to switching gears from interior design to photography.

 

[Garbz]

No worries. My room has yellow walls so straight up putting special lights in my room just won't work