Video: Stopped for taking photos of white house

fjrabon

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Yea in my bias against what a lot of cops do, I failed to realize that the kid was baiting them pretty hard. However wrong was done on both sides. Listening to those cops asking if they could talk to the other party on the telephone and some of the other stupid questions they were asking him, made me think that they are just winging this and looking for a way to nail him or something. He was baiting them and in a real sense they were baiting him too, which is what a lot of law enforcement does.

I think the asking to talk to the other police officer over the phone was because the secret service suspected that the kid was lying and that the guy on the other end wasn't a police officer. Which would then be misrepresenting a police officer, which is a crime. Just like you can't impersonate a police officer, a third person cannot mispresent someone else as being a police officer, even if the person being called a police officer made no claims as such.
 

shootermcgavin

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I don't think this is an issue of legality. It's an issue of common courtesy. They are trying to protect us and do their job, they aren't asking the guy to strip down to nothing, they are asking for an ID. These guys aren't millionaires working dream jobs, I would be pissed just having to wear what they are in public. Isn't that enough punishment, give em a break.
 

fwellers

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Aren't they always. As well young, white, male with nothing better to do than piss and moan about 'rights'. Maybe he could find something worthwhile to do with his camera/life. He could go down S.America and confront police in the same way - enquire of them where all the street kids disappeared to, one night; before the VIPs came to visit.

Clownshoe.

Yea, rights aren't very important. Lets just get good and complacent about them. Thank God for the Youth of our country that have the time and energy to help keep the govt from doing what it does best ( self perpetuate ).
 

skieur

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He should have refused to give them his ID. This isn't Nazi Germany. We're not required to have our "papers" on us at all times.

ORLY?????

Ask Arizona state police about that!
I(everyone) was stopped on I-10 in New Mexico. They asked me if I am a US citizen. I said no. He then told me to pull aside to "see my papers". Luckily I was actually leaving the country from another state and had everything in my car. All of this was happening while every other car with non-English speaking Mexicans were let through saying that they are US citizens.

Different situation. You have to have a valid driver's license when driving or you're breaking the law. If you're walking down the street and get stopped, a cop can't require you to show ID. He can ask you for your name and if you lie, you can get in trouble for that, but you're not required to carry an ID. I know when I go mountain biking, running, or whatever, I'm not alway with my wallet. Not everyone carries an ID everywhere with them.

You are not required to provide any information to the police whatsoever, unless you are driving a car and then it is license, insurance and ownership. In that video, he should NOT have been submitting to any profile.

skieur
 

tirediron

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... These guys aren't millionaires working dream jobs, I would be pissed just having to wear what they are in public. Isn't that enough punishment, give em a break.
To which the only appropriate response is, "They applied (and if I had to guess, against stiff competition) for those jobs. If they decide they don't like what they are doing, then find another job. Dealing with idiots is part of that job, and if they can't do it in an appropriate way (not saying they did or didn't), they should be fired.
 

shootermcgavin

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There must be more criminals in this forum than I originally thought, what would make someone paranoid about providing information to the police? To me right there I would be alarmed that the person was a criminal. There are certainly police that do bad things, but asking for an ID is not one of those things.
 

tirediron

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...You are not required to provide any information to the police whatsoever, unless you are driving a car and then it is license, insurance and ownership. In that video, he should NOT have been submitting to any profile...
I suspect you may want to research that a little farther. I certainly can't speak for identity requirements in the US, but in Canada, while AFAIK, there is no law that says you have to carry your "papers", you do have to be able to prove your identity when demanded by someone (RCMP, etc) with the authority and reason to do so.
 

12sndsgood

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Except for one thing. they were harassing him. Please tell me that you don't think they really thought he was a terrorist. They knew darn well that he was doing nothing wrong, and at most they knew he was baiting them. Is it really that easy to bait Secret Service ? Are they so gullible ? Nah, they are bored and have procedures designed to not give a rats behind about the bill of rights.

who am i to judge wether someone is a terrorist? if i saw timothy mc veigh walking down the street at the time i problaby wouldn't have thought he was a terrroist but look what he did. or are you trying to say that you can point out any terrorist walking down the street? he was taking pictures of security so they wanted to ask him a few questions.

Well then, I guess you just made your case for a police state to make us all safe from each other. Bravo


no, i just answered you question. reality is these guys sit there and there job is to catch the loons. the guys that jump over the fence trying to get in. the guys that shoot at the white house (just saw that they picked up a guy here today or yesterday that shot at a window) and these people that do this don't nessicarily fit the "terrorist" profile. ive seen police harrass people. ive seen cops on power trips. this was neither of those. you said that the secret service knew he wasn't a terrorist. again. how did they know that? they went over, asked the guys some questions. put up with his poor attitude and he was free to go. sorry but that is not harrasment.



sorry looks like they have not caught the guy yet but they know who he is and are hunting for him.
 

12sndsgood

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...You are not required to provide any information to the police whatsoever, unless you are driving a car and then it is license, insurance and ownership. In that video, he should NOT have been submitting to any profile...
I suspect you may want to research that a little farther. I certainly can't speak for identity requirements in the US, but in Canada, while AFAIK, there is no law that says you have to carry your "papers", you do have to be able to prove your identity when demanded by someone (RCMP, etc) with the authority and reason to do so.



did any officer in the video say he HAD to show his id? they asked for it i believe and he gave it to them. nothing wrong with that. i dont remember if they demanded it or said he absolutly had to. so again. nothing wrong in my eyes.
 

tirediron

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...You are not required to provide any information to the police whatsoever, unless you are driving a car and then it is license, insurance and ownership. In that video, he should NOT have been submitting to any profile...
I suspect you may want to research that a little farther. I certainly can't speak for identity requirements in the US, but in Canada, while AFAIK, there is no law that says you have to carry your "papers", you do have to be able to prove your identity when demanded by someone (RCMP, etc) with the authority and reason to do so.



did any officer in the video say he HAD to show his id? they asked for it i believe and he gave it to them. nothing wrong with that. i dont remember if they demanded it or said he absolutly had to. so again. nothing wrong in my eyes.
I wasn't referring to the video, rather responding to skieur's statement regarding the necessity to have/provide ID.
 

fjrabon

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...You are not required to provide any information to the police whatsoever, unless you are driving a car and then it is license, insurance and ownership. In that video, he should NOT have been submitting to any profile...
I suspect you may want to research that a little farther. I certainly can't speak for identity requirements in the US, but in Canada, while AFAIK, there is no law that says you have to carry your "papers", you do have to be able to prove your identity when demanded by someone (RCMP, etc) with the authority and reason to do so.

You do have to be able to state your identity, if the police officer has reasonable suspicion. You do not have to be able to prove your identity, with documentation (unless you were operating a vehicle, or using airline transportation). You can then be arrested for not identifying yourself verbally, provided that the police officer's reasonable suspicion holds up. It's kind of a tricky area, since you can never be sure if the police officer does have reasonable suspicion, and if you turn out to be wrong about it, and they arrest you, then you're screwed.

The kid's 'mistake' was providing his license, but I suspect the kid also knew that if he just walked away, he wouldn't get the secret service blowing up at him, which is probably what he wanted. Once he provided his license, they have the right to do a search on it in federal jurisdictions (which DC is). If he had asked them if he was free to go prior to giving them his license, they would be forced to say yes or no, if they said yes, he was free to go, he could just walk away, which isn't what I think the kid wanted. If the secret service had said no, he wasn't free to leave, then they'd have to be able to prove reasonable suspicion later on, which they probably didn't want to do.
 

shootermcgavin

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I again think there's too much law talk, this isn't so much a law issue. They are not saying the guy has to have ID, I didn't watch the whole video cuz the guy pissed me off just listening to him, but I'm pretty sure never once did he say I'm sorry I have no ID with me could I just give you my name and date of birth or something to that affect. K I got another story that fits this also, when I was 18 I was driving through a bad area at like 1-2am and got pulled over for my license plate light being out. I didn't have my ID on me and the cop saw my backpack and said is there anything in your backpack with your name on it, I was like probably lets look. In his head he was probably thinking drug bust, but in my head I was thinking I'm not a criminal so he can do whatever he wants I just want to get on my way, thinking otherwise to me is a sign of guilt. Is this the world you want to live in alqeadadating.com ?
 

fwellers

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There must be more criminals in this forum than I originally thought, what would make someone paranoid about providing information to the police? To me right there I would be alarmed that the person was a criminal. There are certainly police that do bad things, but asking for an ID is not one of those things.

This isn't like the good old days anymore. When anybody asks for my ID, I want to know why they want it and what they are going to do with the INFORMATION. Remember, my license is INFORMATION. Why should I have to provide it to the police ? What gives them the authority to "run" me and potentially put my name on some hit list, just because they percieve I am acting suspiciously ?
Sorry, I just happen to disagree with the status quo there. I don't feel I should provide my personal information to anyone unless it is MY choice or unless I am breaking the law.
 

fjrabon

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There must be more criminals in this forum than I originally thought, what would make someone paranoid about providing information to the police? To me right there I would be alarmed that the person was a criminal. There are certainly police that do bad things, but asking for an ID is not one of those things.

This isn't like the good old days anymore. When anybody asks for my ID, I want to know why they want it and what they are going to do with the INFORMATION. Remember, my license is INFORMATION. Why should I have to provide it to the police ? What gives them the authority to "run" me and potentially put my name on some hit list, just because they percieve I am acting suspiciously ?
Sorry, I just happen to disagree with the status quo there. I don't feel I should provide my personal information to anyone unless it is MY choice or unless I am breaking the law.

well, regardless of what you think, you don't have to be actually breaking the law, just pass reasonable suspicion for them to require you to give your personal information. You can't be required to give your license or other 'papers' though, unless you're operating a vehicle, or flying. However, if you mislead the police about your identity, or refuse to identify yourself, and their reasonable suspicion holds up, then you can be arrested. You may disagree with that, but that's what the law is.
 

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