Wedding and second photographer

AmberNikol · Apr 5, 2011

I have a question.

I've been hired to do a wedding in August by a client who i've never met. I wanted to have a second photographer there to help out since I've done weddings by myself before and know that it's just a lot easier to have a second photographer there. I asked my friend who does her own photography as well if she would want to come on as my second photographer.

She's struggling with the idea because she doesn't know how it would help her business out knowing that she would not be getting any recognition for it(other than payment and of course many thanks from me)

I told her as second photographer to an event, you usually don't get recognition since it was the other photographer who was actually hired for the event. Plus it's more for more experience to these types of events and exposure to them, not really a recognition thing.

I'm just wondering for those of you who have done weddings or have been second photographers for events like that what usually happens? Do u edit your own pictures and then give them to the photographer who was hired? Or do you just give the images to the photographer who was hired to edit them? Do you get recognition for that event? Say your business name put somewhere or something? Also, do you get to keep the rights to your pictures or do they become the hired photographers pictures? Are you allowed to use them in your own portfolio?

I know that's a lot of questions but I'm trying to figure out a way that she would be comfortable with the situation and yet not totally throw my own business under the bus per say.

Thanks for any input!

andynrach · Apr 5, 2011

I started second shooting weddings last summer, and these are my thoughts.

Number one, pay her to be a second shooter, obviously. Number two, it is never a bad thing to get out there and shoot any event, whether you're the name on the gig or not. Experience is always always always priceless (plus, it's kind of your name at risk if things don't go well so it's a relatively stressless situation for her) Plus, should she decide she wants to add weddings to her list of services someday, it will inspire more confidence in her clients that she has actually done a wedding before, second shooter or not. Number three, setting up a relationship where one photographer helps the other is always a good thing to have for both parties. She can then feel free to ask you to second shoot for her sometime. Number four, I would have one person do the editing/processing so you have continuity. Number five, I don't know who gets to keep rights to the photos, but whereas she is a friend, if she came out of it with a real gem I think I would let her use it in a portfolio....but that's just me and I'm SURE there are copyrights around this subject.

Just my thoughts and experience.....

Big Mike · Apr 5, 2011

I second shoot quite a bit. It's a great situation for me because I work full time (something other than photography) and I have a family. Second shooting allows me to make money with photography but without all the time of running my business or dealing with the 'extras' around a wedding. I show up, I shoot (on their cards) and I turn over the cards at the end of the day.
Sometimes I get some of the photos but it's not an issue.
Sure, if I were shooting my own weddings, I could also be promoting my own business and that would lead to more weddings...but that's not necessarily what I want right now.
But the big thing is that I agreed to this before shooting with the other photographers. We both know what our expectations are so it works out well for all of us.

As far as the rights to the photos go, in your situation. If you hire her and have her sign a contract that says you own the copyright, then you will. But if you just ask her to shoot, then she may own the copyright.

AmberNikol · Apr 5, 2011

thank you Andy, this was exactly my thoughts on the whole thing as well. I just wanted to see what others opinions are.

AmberNikol · Apr 5, 2011

Thanks Big Mike!

KmH · Apr 5, 2011

Many contractually let their second shooters use the photos they shoot in the seconds portfolio, many don't.

Either way you are helping her to go out on her own, if she so desires.

AmberNikol · Apr 17, 2011

Update:
Well she refuses to do the wedding with me because she's not getting recognition for it. I wont be asking her to help anymore. It sucks because I really need a second photographer and I have no idea where to look for one. Does anyone have any suggestions on where to post or even find a photographer to be a second photographer for me?

TMphotography · Apr 20, 2011

I actually would look for a student who's majoring in photography, and is in their second year of photography studies. Not only will they jump at the chance for the experience, but they'll have fresh minds on techniques that you may learn from. They also would love picking the brain of a more experienced photographer (when you're not working, of course). If you have a college in your town or city that has a photography program, see about putting a flier on campus. I also suggest *cringe* Craigslist, if you're VERY clear on what you are looking for and are prepared for people answering your ad that are just not up to par. Bonus: using a student means you see their portfolio of schoolwork AND personal photography. You can clearly discern where their skill level is at. Also, many will work for experience/chance to pick your brain, other than pay. I currently have an assistant that I will be developing into a second shooter, and it's a great "work for experience" situation.

Dajuan · Apr 21, 2011

2nd shooters work for the lead photographer or company. Typically (in the US), they don't own the copyright to anything they produce while 2nd shooting (work for hire). They aren't representing themselves, but the company they are hired for. For your friend to expect to have their name on the event is beyond anything I've ever come across. Sounds like there might be more to the story?

Amber, don't be afraid to hire a photographer with more experience. You'll likely get more than your monies worth in image quality and knowledge. I LOVE shooting with other lead photographers during my events.

manaheim · Apr 21, 2011

I know she's not going to do it, but I assume your general question still stands...

I do it for one person I know. I keep rights to all my images, I edit them before he gets them, and I decide what gets thrown on the cutting room floor. I shoot as an agent of his photography business and get no acknowledgement other than being a nice guy who is the backup for the day. I pretty much am a shadow with a camera.

That said, this person is trying to be nice to me, and frankly I think he's crazy. :lol:

How do you turn in a second set of images that don't look like your set in any way? Neither in style nor in processing or treatment? I dunno. Seems weird to me.

I DO think it's good/nice/fair to let the person retain copyright, but I also think that the primary shooter should have full license to use your images in pretty much any way they see fit since they hired you, but I can also see where some primaries would not want this and I would understand, but then I probably wouldn't do that shoot... well, unless I was paid more than I am paid with this guy.

camz · Apr 21, 2011

Besides what's been mentioned, in our circle of photographer friends we second shoot for each other all the time. We always have meetings and get togethers 4-5 times a year...keep in touch and chit chat. I think she's missing a great oppurtunity to network with a fellow photographer(you) as double bookings may occur with you which is where she can pick up new clientel from your overflow.... and whoever other photographer she rubs shoulders with. The flipside is vice versa. We booked about 6 weddings last year from overflow from our other fellow photographer in the local network. Vendors watching out for other vendors works out for the best for everybody I think.

Scratch yours scratch their's kinda thing.

AmberNikol · Apr 22, 2011

Thanks Everyone. I totally agree with what everyone has said so far.

I did post on Craigslist and actually got a lot of replies, some people who I can't afford and others who are looking for just experience. I made a lot of contacts with other photographers. I definitely think she is losing out but it was her decision.

I'm shooting Phil Stacey in May and she's my second photographer and i actually had to have the promoter put "with help from" and her name underneath in order for her to help out. Which really upsets me but It's a little late to find someone else and I already promised the promoter two photographers since she said she would do it and then almost backed out on me. Thing is, I wont be asking her to help with anything anymore.

Mike_E · Apr 22, 2011

Next time check with bridal shops, bakeries that do wedding cakes, local wedding planners, caterers and anyone else you can find in the trade. Everybody that's anybody knows somebody.