What happens if you buy pirated software...

[kundalini]

You did nothing wrong, but only removing the offending posts and not the posts that referred to them left the thread very choppy and confusing.

Thanks for the explanation Corry. It makes sense for the edit.

 

[am_photoer]

This is really pessimistic, and for some reason the 'new' generation is bad while the 'old' generation was noble and good. I'm sure nobody ever broke any laws before...

unless there is a solution to the cause of piracy then just punishing the users will not solve the problem. If you want to ignore the societal issues than fine, but if there is a product that is out there for free it will be chosen more or less, morals here, over the product you buy.

but that won't happen - or anything. And i doubt that this post will stop anybody from using pirated software. So lets just all be moral little kids and never break the rules ever!

(It is illegal to wear a bullet-proof vest while committing a murder.) like that law, heavens no don't break that one...

 

[Rrr3319]

just curious... those who can justify not purchasing software either because you can't afford it, you want to "test drive" it, because you aren't making a profit, etc... if it wasn't so easy to get your hands on would you be willing to walk yourself into bestbuy or another retail store and steal all your software straight of the shelf, giving the store manager, police officers, judges, etc. your argument that it's ok because you've found proper rationalization?
with the computer age we now live in, it's much easier for people to commit crimes because it's easier to commit them (they don't even have to leave the house) and easier for them to justify to themselves. but stealing things on your computer is basically the same as going to the store and shoving a pile of cds and software into your jacket. and while i have known some people who have told me they think it's ok to do, i really don't know how someone can tell themselves that.

 

[jstuedle]

This is really pessimistic, and for some reason the 'new' generation is bad while the 'old' generation was noble and good. I'm sure nobody ever broke any laws before...

unless there is a solution to the cause of piracy then just punishing the users will not solve the problem. If you want to ignore the societal issues than fine, but if there is a product that is out there for free it will be chosen more or less, morals here, over the product you buy.

but that won't happen - or anything. And i doubt that this post will stop anybody from using pirated software. So lets just all be moral little kids and never break the rules ever!

(It is illegal to wear a bullet-proof vest while committing a murder.) like that law, heavens no don't break that one...

Let's break this down.
1)"My generation never broke laws." We could expect to be pulled over for a tail light out or Jay-Walking or spitting on the side walk. There was a fine and most of us didn't do it. Were there thieves and when caught they went to jail. We didn't look the other way or snicker about it. We didn't condone it. This is really a lame argument for justifying theft of I.P. today. I am sure you can see the fallacy of this excuse. My generation had it's faults. the great society was one. This IMO was the start of thinking like yours. Something for nothing, that's were a big chunk of that mindset came from.

2) "Punishing the users doesn't solve the problem" If the pirates or pushers don't have a market, then they can't stay in business. Basic economics. And if the I.P. Owners can profit from all sales of there I.P. then prices will be competitive. Surly you can comprehend that basic principle.

Basically today we have a third world mindset where so many expect something for nothing and have there hand out. Only instead of bread and water its cash, and electronics. One day, if lucky these thieves and beggars will become productive members of society and see the light and THEIR I.P. being ripped off at every turn.

 

[am_photoer]

1) you think your generation is so different... okay, and its funny that you couldn't spit on a sidewalk... don't question that because spitting on a side walk... would anger... the concrete god? (this is where you say how does ip theft compare to spitting ona sidewalk blah blah blah)

:heart: so can you give me some cash and electronics now? I really want some! :heart: god wants everyone to have electronics! :hail: :hug::

Economically you can say that sure no public no product, in theory... but there is a public... so that theory isn't useful. Get used to it that as long as there is property there is going to be theft. (can i have my morality pill), as long as i take that then i'm perfect (and go to church every sunday too because otherwise you will anger the church god) and can judge others

2. go take a picture and change the world

 

[Corry]

I'm quite certain that it is perfectly possible to debate without being insulting and condescending.

There is a lot to be said about a person who can remain civil in disagreement.

Now, please do so.

 

[usayit]

1) you think your generation is so different... okay, and its funny that you couldn't spit on a sidewalk... don't question that because spitting on a side walk... would anger... the concrete god? (this is where you say how does ip theft compare to spitting ona sidewalk blah blah blah)

It is this screwed up attitude that makes my generation (I presume the one after jstuedle's) and every generation afterwards so messed up. I like to read a lot about history.. not politics.. not events... just about people. I have a VERY deep respect for the generations prior to mine... for their failures (we all have them) and their successes but also their sense.


The answer is really simple.... it is written in our law books that software piracy is illegal. It is ILLEGAL.... this is regardless of the debate of right, wrong, and morally correct. IT IS ILLEGAL. Until the laws are changed it is illegal!!!! Not allowed.. not permitted. The anti-piracy laws do not care whether you are student, hobbiest, rich, broke..... It doesn't care whether or not you profit or don't profit.

PERIOD.

You can bring up all the scenarios and corner cases you want... the law explicit. If you want to conjure up your own laws, you need to leave and start your own country.

You and everyone in this discussion have every right to voice our opinion but we are still to abide by the laws on the books. No exception.

 

[The_Traveler]

It is this screwed up attitude that makes my generation (I presume the one after jstuedle's) and every generation afterwards so messed up.

I'm not certain that there is a generational difference as much as there is an age and maturity difference. Younger people are often very solipsistic; they haven't been away from mommy long enough to realize that they aren't the entire world and that other people do count for something. Kids are basically sociopaths toward things they don't understand.

When they get to the stage that they actually have worked to have something, and can't turn to the 'rents for a replacement, all of a sudden a switch goes off and they begin to understand.

I'd bet $20 that the average age of those who don't think that software piracy is OK is 15 years less than those who realize it's wrong.

 

[jols]

I'm not certain that there is a generational difference as much as there is an age and maturity difference. Younger people are often very solipsistic; they haven't been away from mommy long enough to realize that they aren't the entire world and that other people do count for something. Kids are basically sociopaths toward things they don't understand.

When they get to the stage that they actually have worked to have something, and can't turn to the 'rents for a replacement, all of a sudden a switch goes off and they begin to understand.

I'd bet $20 that the average age of those who don't think that software piracy is OK is 15 years less than those who realize it's wrong.

maybe .............................or maybe not!

 

[usayit]

I'm not certain that there is a generational difference as much as there is an age and maturity difference.

Yes, I partly agree... I am simplifying things quite a bit. I could name a few factors that I personally believe are part of the problem... the biggest being Parenting (or the lack of it). If you really examine the whole phenomenon, the vast changes on how an individual behaves and processes the events around them really do fall on generational lines. Why??? because parenting itself falls on those same exact generational lines. It is no coincidence that jstuedle's generation generally had 1 working parent per household and mine has more 2 working parents.

Another is respect for authority (The eroding of Teacher and School officials authority to control the student population.. they are afraid of being lawsuits.. my wife is in this situation). Yet another is Media and marketing and how it shapes the young mind (TV being the substitute delinquent parent when none are present).

My brother and I are 14 years apart. We are basically living in different generations even though we share the same parents. I have had LONG LONG LONG discussions with my father (especially since recently becoming a father myself) of how different, more difficult, and more complicated it was raising my brother. He explicitly mentions distractions of TV, electronics, cloths, cars, cell phones, computers, games.. etc.. all leading to the "Keeping up with the Joneses" mindset were simply not a factor in my upbringing. I was more interested in the pursuit of interests.... my brother's generation were more interested in the pursuit of perceived material wealth. My group of friends were perfectly happy working to earn cash to fix up that broken down car so we can enjoy the freedom of driving. The younger generation have it programed in their mind that it is the parent's responsibility and their right to be provided a vehicle... not to mention a college education.

I'd bet $20 that the average age of those who don't think that software piracy is OK is 15 years less than those who realize it's wrong.

I checked... its actually worse than you think. A couple of those posting claim to be 20 or so.... which is very scary.

 

[Rhys]

Yes... Personal responsibility. That's my big thing. I don't believe we should have laws forbidding lots of things. We should instead replace them with a crime of irresponsibility.

Many governments will ban lots of things when they are in fact not a problem but the problem lies with irresponsible people owning them. As an example, one government banned tasers (not exactly lethal) when they first came out because they were afraid of irresponsible people getting hold of them. Strangely they allow irresponsible people to drive cars.

Relating this to software theft or theft of intellectual property; this is the same as copyright violation (people using your photos without compensation); this is irresponsible because they have not paid attention to the reason the owner had the items for sale.

 

[Iron Flatline]

You are assuming im trying to justify theft, no where did i say i agreed with software pirating, i even in my previous post stated that i disagree with it, and have never done it. But its far too much bother for you to realise that and understand that i am not trying to justify theft but simply stating that things happen like that simply because the system of law and government we have is flawed. Also no where did i mention a starving student, i have no idea why you brought up that argument, and for all i can see it serves no use to your post.

You say all IP theft is wrong. Lets take your own example, the pharmaceutical company, it could raise the standard of living for the entire world, most certainly 3rd world countries, but they cannot afford the high prices, if someone went and "stole" that and gave it to the world for free, then how is that instance of theft lame. As long as they didnt claim the discovery as their own, and were only releasing it for altruistic reasons, i can find no fault with it. However if they claimed it as their own, you then start having the fault. Most human actions are teleological.

Alex, I was responding to the thread and its participants as a whole, not just you. Posting right after you certainly makes it look like that though. It's inherent to this form of communication - it's not linear, but it's presented that way.

Where I did quote you, and to respond to your comments, I bring up the point of pharmaceutical IP as a good example of an interesting argument, not because I have an opinion on it. I am limiting my opinions to the actions of individuals, not states. It gets pretty wobbly and collegiate beyond a certain scope. Is a government appropriating a patent theft (as Brazil did regarding a certain inhibitor of AIDS-Related Complex)? Well, what if Guatemala decided to install 300,000 Win XP operating systems on Intel boxes to catch up with the Developed World? I have no opinion about theft at that level anymore, I just find it an interesting debate.

 

[The_Traveler]

Lets take your own example, the pharmaceutical company, it could raise the standard of living for the entire world, most certainly 3rd world countries, but they cannot afford the high prices, if someone went and "stole" that and gave it to the world for free, then how is that instance of theft lame.

As long as they didnt claim the discovery as their own, and were only releasing it for altruistic reasons, i can find no fault with it. However if they claimed it as their own, you then start having the fault. Most human actions are teleological.

Appropriating information and giving it away, when the originator of the information wants to sell it, is theft. Drugs are merely a physical manifestation of that IP. This is a different question, whether the 'right' of a society to care for its citizens trumps the 'right' of the originator of the IP.

If you wrote a book entitled "English for native speakers of Chinese' and you wanted to sell the books on Amazon for $26 but the government of China, for example, decided to scan and disseminate the book electronically to 100 million students without payment to you, would you see that as theft?

Lew