When a session goes poorly

[Derrel]

Derrel, you seem really disdainful about this. I'm not sure why. I've been pleasant and open to feedback.

It rarely takes three hours. Its never three continuous hours of shooting.

I am capable of taking 100s of beautiful shots in short periods, but infants and children throw in a ton of variables. When you photograph a newborn for 30 minutes who is working on a poop the entire time and looks like, well, a person trying to take a crap, you might need a wee bit more time. Is that so ridiculous?

This is your first post here. You think this is me being "disdainful"? Lol.

How much support and back-patting would you like for a session that "went poorly"? Your clients clearly were NOT in the mood for the session when they arrived. The father picked up the baby and told you the session was over. You originally posted that you were barely able to shoot anything passable in 30 to 35 minutes. I have not seen one single frame you've shot, but heard nothing but how poorly the session went. Your initial post said you had results you were not at all happy with...then, later, you back-pedaled a bit and apparently, now the shots do not look quite so poor, to paraphrase your words.

I'm intimately familiar with the many variables that infants and children throw into a session. But, you know, when the father picked up the baby and told you the session was OVER...it indicated something seriously wrong. Maybe you can use it as a learning experience? I could care less if it's three hours of "continuous shooting"...if you think that you need three hours to photograph a newborn baby...I think you are seriously, seriously in need of some tips and mentoring on how to handle a newborn shoot that has two parents in attendance. A three hour long NEWBORN session??? With TWO parents in attendance? A session that was ended by the father picking up the child and telling you the session was "over".

Am I supposed to be really in awe of you about this "session that went badly"? I'm disdainful because frankly, I think maybe there's something seriously wrong here. A session that "goes poorly" can be viewed as an opportunity to improve your business model. Perhaps you ought to think about what caused the entire session to be abruptly ended by the father...

 

[Derrel]

So...let's say the photographer takes 500 images in 180 minutes. Using a shutter speed of 1/250 second, that is 0.004 seconds per exposure.

So...500 frames x .004 seconds of exposure per frame, EQUALS 2.0 seconds!!!!!

Awesome! So, even though it takes three full hours to shoot a session, the photographer is only "actually shooting" for 2.0 seconds.

Amazing how one can rationalize how long it actually takes to shoot 15 different poses!!!

 

[gsgary]

Derrel, you seem really disdainful about this. I'm not sure why. I've been pleasant and open to feedback.

It rarely takes three hours. Its never three continuous hours of shooting.

I am capable of taking 100s of beautiful shots in short periods, but infants and children throw in a ton of variables. When you photograph a newborn for 30 minutes who is working on a poop the entire time and looks like, well, a person trying to take a crap, you might need a wee bit more time. Is that so ridiculous?

Take a look at some of the best avaliable light photographers like Jane Bown sometimes she got less than 5 minutes, Samuel Beckett it was probably more like 10 seconds but what a shot 3 hours is crazy if you have studio lighti.g you know what lighting there going to be

 

[Sw1tchFX]

I've met some pretty serious pro baby photogs, and when we talked shop, none of them ever said a shoot went 1-3 hours...

Even if you're a lifestyle shooter..you shoot the 10 moneymaker poses first, if something evolves out of that, great, but at least you've got your 10 moneymakers... That takes about 5 minutes.

 

[janineh]

I do a lot of newborns and a session is always 2-3hrs. Baby first need to go to sleep which sometimes takes an hour. All depends on the baby. 3hrs is totally normal.

Yeah, not sure what to tell you. Totally understand where you are coming from. I would say you show them the 3 pics you've got and tell them a session usually lasts longer. But bc they wished to end the session, that is all they get.

Maybe offer to come back if they wish. Thats really all you can do.

 

[janineh]

Wow. My brother in law Brandon Hill sent me this thread since I do a good amount of newborn/children photography. First of all, these forums should be constructive, not harsh and judgmental. The dripping sarcasm here is just so off putting and is why I generally don't participate in forums. So, to set you people straight:
1. Newborn sessions do in fact take 2-3 hours if you are doing your job. I am also a mom and there is NO WAY I would ever expect someone to come in a photograph my baby in 3o min. 30 min. is often how long it takes people to get their babies to sleep, diaper changed, fed, etc. You spend MAYBE 45-1hr min of the 3 hours actually taking pictures.
2. Lifestyle photography means spending time with them to DOCUMENT their lifestyle. Not shoving yourself in their door for 3o minutes and 'shooting' some pictures. For me, mine are 1/2 posed and 1/2 photo journalistic. So, posing them with a limp newborn takes time as parents don't have the first clue how to even hold their newborn without being stiff half the time! And getting them asleep enough to move them around without them fighting against you will also take a lot of time. It does not mean you shoot 1000 images and keep 20.
3. Cultivating the client relationship for lower volume studios means spending a good amount of time with them, getting to know them, making them apart of the studio family. Popping in and out the door in 30 min. will not create any client loyalty. Sitting patiently while they feed their baby, offering assistance, letting them know you're in no rush when they are stressed b\c their baby is crying, THAT is what will bring them back when they have a 6 month old and will also lead them to spend 1K for that session. I'm sure you rarely made that much in a newborn session Darrel.
And yes, I KNOW lighting, I know film, etc. So, don't even pull that BS with me about not being a real photographer b\c of how we work. Just b\c you shoot in a studio doesn't make you better than those who don't.
GPC- if I were to offer any helpful advice (and maybe you did this) but it would be to always setup a time to talk with them on the phone and do a consult beforehand b\c never NEVER freaking read the stuff you send! Never. Then they are surprised when things don't go as they expect so definitely call first. And second, I would just edit what you have and maybe their expectations are low and they won't even notice. If they do say anything you definitely have a leg to stand on by referring them to the info you sent saying it would take 2-3 hours, etc. I don't think they will ever give you the time you need so if they aren't happy I would just refund them at least part of their payment so they won't go bad mouthing you. Some people will just never be happy. Tell them to go to a studio where they will be serviced in the time they feel is appropriate. Hope this was more helpful than some of the other comments you received!

Thank you! Well said! Some ppl have no idea what it actually takes to take a sleeping curled up newborn photo. Baby needs to sleep first. That just doesn't happen when you walk through the door. It might take ages...

 

[gsgary]

I can't imagine pulling off any kind of photo shoot in a half hour with great success. I sympathize with your situation GDC.

I can show you a 30 dog shot in 1 hour

 

[runnah]

At the end of the day it's all about making the client happy. 15 mins in you should have felt the vibe and realize it was time to make hay while the sun was shining. Yes there will always be"those customers" but as a professional you have to roll with the punches and work around it.

I don't think you did anything wrong just in future be more adaptive to the situation. Because unhappy customers leads to bad word of mouth which leads to you selling your pocket wizards for food.

 

[Steve5D]

Anyone who claims that a newborn shoot can be successfully accomplished in 30 minutes or less is either out of their mind or has never actually done it. Treating like a Domino's order is silly. There are simply too many variables to be able to make the statement that such a shoot should be done in "X" amount of time.

I've done shoots that have lasted less than an hour. I've done shoots that last two to three hours. The ones that last two to three hours are far more common. When you look through the comments made in this thread, it's pretty evident that a longer shoot is far more common than the shorter one...

 

[pixmedic]

Anyone who claims that a newborn shoot can be successfully accomplished in 30 minutes or less is either out of their mind or has never actually done it. Treating like a Domino's order is silly. There are simply too many variables to be able to make the statement that such a shoot should be done in "X" amount of time.

I've done shoots that have lasted less than an hour. I've done shoots that last two to three hours. The ones that last two to three hours are far more common. When you look through the comments made in this thread, it's pretty evident that a longer shoot is far more common than the shorter one...

Who actually said a shoot can be done from start to finish in 30 minutes or less? I sure didn't. I think the thread has gotten a little off topic though.

 

[jwbryson1]

So, to set you people straight:

Wow! Narcissistic much? :raisedbrow:

 

[jwbryson1]

Thanks Erin. It seems like on the whole, I barked up the wrong tree posting here.

Cheers.

No, you didn't. What you did, however, was come in with an attitude, but not nearly the attitude given off by ErinJPhoto. What a joker. :er:

 

[runnah]

Anyone who claims that a newborn shoot can be successfully accomplished in 30 minutes or less is either out of their mind or has never actually done it. Treating like a Domino's order is silly. There are simply too many variables to be able to make the statement that such a shoot should be done in "X" amount of time.

I've done shoots that have lasted less than an hour. I've done shoots that last two to three hours. The ones that last two to three hours are far more common. When you look through the comments made in this thread, it's pretty evident that a longer shoot is far more common than the shorter one...

My point what that to claim yourself a "professional" you have to be able to work with what you have. Time, lighting, models etc.. A true professional can make any situation look good. Blaming the clients for your poor workmanship is unprofessional.

please note I am not talking about you in particular.

 

[Steve5D]

A THREE-HOUR newborn session???

I used to work at a studio where we took seven finished images in as little as 10 minutes. A newborn baby can be photographed fast, if you are prepared, and have a plan. I'm sorry, but a three-hour session is just totally,totally out of the question in terms of expecting that either a baby, or two parents, will put up with that much of an imposition.

30 images for a newborn session??? I think you need to reevaluate a number of things with the way you approach these types of sessions. I do not want to seem like I am being harsh with you, but I am plain-spoken. I have photographed literally well over 1,000 babies and toddlers. Seriously. Your approach is setting you up for feeling like a failure. Make each shot COUNT. Cover your bases FIRST. A newborn doesn't have to be "on", like a teenaged actress...

When the dad tells you the session is over...then it is over, and you have over-shot your welcome...possibly by a significant margin.

That was a whole lotta' bloviating to not answer the question.

Regardless of the amount of time she expected to shoot, the fact of the matter is that she came away from the shoot with results she's unhappy with. That's the basis of her question, I think: How to approach the parents with the substandard results. But, instead of trying to offer her some advice on how to handle the parents, all you did was go on about how the length of time she expected to be there was too long, and how the studio you worked at could shoot a newborn in under ten minutes (I've seen those studios. They usually have a big sign above the entrance that says "SEARS").

To the OP: I would ask to meet with the parents, and explain that you simply didn't not get the results you would normally expect. Don't dare mention a word about how you sensed tension between them or suggest, in any way, that their cutting the shoot short was what caused you to not get results you were happy with. Show them what you have. If they're happy with what you show them, you dodged a bullet. If they're not, offer them a refund (in the long run it's cheaper than having your name dragged through the mud) or offer to do the shoot again. Bottom line, do what you can to make them happy, but within reason. Chances are that, when they look at how they handled it, they'll be mortified at themselves.

There's no special little equation which dictates that you should spend "X" amount of time doing a shoot. I've done shoots that I thought would last two hours and were over in 30 minutes. Other times I've done shoots which I thought would last 30 minutes but took over two hours. If you're a pro, you roll with it. Ignore those who laugh at someone who doesn't have a studio or suggest that you don't know how to pose a subject. Ignore them. They have nothing to offer you. My experience has proven to me, time and time again, that those who are the most vocal in their criticism are those who are unable to get hired themselves, and harbor a degree of jealousy for those, like you, who do get hired.

Your situation is unfortunate, but it's also quite salvageable...

 

[pixmedic]

The larger point here is that the OP had a less than ideal experience with a shoot and now needs advice on what to do about it. Without getting too far off topic, i think the best thing to do is politely schedule a re shoot, and scrap any and all pictures you arent completely happy with. Anyone advising you to give a client photos you know are poor quality either dont care about their own products, or dont know the difference themselves.

EDIT: steve5d beat me to the punch, and he is spot on with his advice.